Evidence of meeting #138 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was decision.
A video is available from Parliament.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
I don't think so, but I'm not sure this is what we should agree on, that they had conversations with the public prosecutor—
Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON
Well, we'll treat it as a hypothetical. Do you think it's appropriate for that kind of contact to happen between the Prime Minister's Office staff and your Crown prosecutor or the PPS of Canada?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
That was the last question. We will give the witness time to answer.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
Crown prosecutors don't have conversations about specific cases with the PMO. They can maybe answer questions, but as I said before, a section 13 letter to explain is really dedicated to the AG.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Drouin, thank you for being here today.
As you know, I'm not a lawyer. So I'd like to clarify some aspects of your testimony so that it's clearer to me and perhaps to others as well.
I would like to clarify some of your testimony. At the end of October, the Privy Council Office asked your department for an opinion on the potential impacts on the SNC-Lavalin issue if the prosecution were to lead to a criminal conviction, yes or no?
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
Yes.
Liberal
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
My department developed it. Yes.
Liberal
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
Yes.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Did you provide that report to the Privy Council Office?
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
No, I didn't.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Why did you not provide that report to the Privy Council Office?
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
Because I knew my minister was not comfortable with us continuing those conversations. I felt I should test with her office before I shared the piece with the Privy Council Office, and I was instructed not to send it.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
So the minister of justice and former attorney general of Canada instructed you to not send your legal advice to the Privy Council Office and, by extension of that, cabinet?
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
The request I got was from the PCO. I'm accountable to the minister. I do also report to the Clerk on the management thing, but I decided that because my minister was not comfortable with us sharing with the PCO, I didn't.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Let me simplify the question. You did not provide the report to the PCO at the request of your minister?
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
That's right.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Mr. Wernick, I appreciate all you have done for this country and your contribution to the institutions of governance in Canada.
If a report such as this were shared with the Privy Council Office, is it reasonable to assume that the information would at some point be shared with cabinet in deliberation?
Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
The matter of prosecutions would never come before cabinet.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Would it be something that an Attorney General might discuss with the Prime Minister or at least need to be informed about before she met with the Prime Minister?
Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
Certainly my understanding of the law—and we've talked about the Shawcross principle—is that the Attorney General as the final decision-maker has the ability and sometimes the obligation to seek input from colleagues.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Ms. Drouin, once again I'm going to ask you for some clarification.
Is it the case that the former attorney general went into a meeting with the Prime Minister on September 17 without the benefit of your full advice on whether to pursue independent legal advice?
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
On September 17 she was in possession of the legal opinion I described in my opening remarks.