Evidence of meeting #138 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was decision.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Okay, folks. I'd ask the cameras to leave please.
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are continuing our meetings on remediation agreements, the Shawcross doctrine and the discussions between the Office of the Attorney General and government colleagues.
I would like to welcome today, from the Privy Council Office, Mr. Michael Wernick, the Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.
I would request once again that the witnesses be sworn in. Clearly the testimony of Mr. Wernick, the last time he appeared before our committee, is, in many areas, inconsistent with the testimony that Ms. Wilson-Raybould gave. Given the gravity of the allegations and the very detailed testimony of Ms. Wilson-Raybould, I think that in the circumstances it is appropriate that both of the witnesses be sworn in.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Thank you very much, Mr. Cooper.
I'll repeat what I said this morning, that no witness has been sworn in at this committee for the last 25 years, at least; that witnesses are required—and I'm reminding the witnesses, of course—to tell the truth before committee. You can be charged with contempt of Parliament if you mislead the committee.
Since Confederation, nobody has ever waived parliamentary immunity to charge somebody with contempt for misleading a committee, so that's why, out of practice, the committee has not done that.
We will have a vote on Mr. Cooper's—
Conservative
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Mr. Clerk, we have a request for a recorded vote.
By the way, those voting “yea” are voting to swear in the witnesses; those voting “nay” are saying it's not necessary.
(Motion negatived: nays 5; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Thank you very much.
I'm going to return to welcoming, again, Mr. Michael Wernick, who's the Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet. Thank you very much for coming back before us, Mr. Wernick.
We also welcome Nathalie G. Drouin, Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada.
Thank you very much for coming to meet with us today, Ms. Drouin.
We have allocated 15 minutes to each witness for opening statements. We will start with Mr. Wernick.
Before we start, we have Mr. Wernick's and Madame Drouin's opening statements, which we have distributed to committee members. We also had the undertaking from Mr. Wernick, from his last appearance before us, to provide certain notes and correspondence that he had agreed to provide. We have those here. Much of it is bilingual; some of it is in English only. I'm requesting the committee's permission to distribute it despite the fact that some parts of it are not translated.
Liberal
Bloc
Louis Plamondon Bloc Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel, QC
I know I can't legally oppose the motion, but I'm very disappointed that one of the two official languages hasn't been entirely respected.
I'm not opposing the motion because I don't have the power to do so as I'm not a member of a recognized party.
Liberal
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
This is the second time this committee has shirked its responsibility to provide documents in both official languages. We don't object to the document being submitted, but I would like you to inform all witnesses and persons who appear before this committee that it is important to submit their documents in both official languages so we can have access to the information in the official language of our choice, as we are entitled to do in the committees.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
That's generally not the witnesses' duty. Instead it's the duty of the clerk and the committee to have documents translated. We generally don't distribute untranslated documents to everyone, but this causes a delay. That's why we've requested permission to distribute them before they are translated.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Considering the subject, I'm not objecting to that.
What I'm asking is that the committee remind witnesses, if possible, to submit their documents in both official languages before they appear. This is the second time the committee has done this. I think it's important that we don't get into a habit of unanimously agreeing to receive and distribute documents in only one language.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
That's quite clear. We simply want to ensure that members have the documents on a timely basis today. Having said that, I entirely agree that we want all documents to be in both official languages. That's the practice of our committee.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
I hope the documents will be translated into both languages in future, for our committee and for all members.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Yes. So that everyone knows, I would note that, when we receive documents, it is our responsibility as a committee to have them translated and then to distribute them. There are times, and today is one of them, when we want members to have the documents in hand. The committee will definitely have them translated and they will then be distributed in Canada's two official languages.
Mr. Plamondon, I understand your objection, I entirely agree with you. I nevertheless think it's important today that everyone have in hand all the documents in our possession before we hear the witnesses.
If that's okay, we will distribute this, and we will move to Mr. Wernick's testimony.
Mr. Wernick, the floor is now yours. Thank you, sir.
Michael Wernick Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
There are two new facts since I last appeared at the committee some two weeks ago. One is the waiver that was offered to witnesses. That will allow different lines of questioning by the committee members. The other is the kind of traffic that I have received on social media, and I would like to present these to the committee, if somebody could please transmit them to the clerk. I would ask the committee—
NDP
Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC
On a point of order, what is the relevance of social media to what we're doing? The terms of reference are—
Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
If I could explain—
Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
If I could explain—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Yes, of course, Mr. Wernick. Go ahead. I've stopped the timer.
Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
I believe that you will want to discuss this as the intimidation of a witness before your committee and a breach of the committee's privileges. You can take that up in camera if you wish. I will be distributing these to the media.