Evidence of meeting #157 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was families.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Thank you very much.
We're coming back to this side. It was Mr. Boissonnault, I believe, or Mr. McKinnon. I can't remember.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Thanks very much.
Mr. Bezan, you mentioned that you were a parliamentary secretary and that this fell off the Order Paper in the last Parliament.
At the end of the day, you're trying to help families. Is it your sense that this is entirely in the sense of judicial discretion and that you wouldn't want to be directing judges whatsoever? Would there be no sense of pressuring judges or insisting that they should be going to the 40 years versus the 25 or any period in between?
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
There's none at all, and I want that on the record, because I know often that court cases will look at testimony given in parliamentary committees, as well as at debates in the House of Commons, to determine the nature and the will of Parliament at the time. Mine is very clear. It's purely at the discretion of the judge to assign a sentence, anywhere from 25 years up to 40 years, and I'm happy with anything in between. It's giving our courts, including juries, the ability to make those decisions on their own.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Okay.
I noticed in the PBO report that you had done that we're talking about a relatively few people and that the effect on the budget would be in the low millions. I know there's a challenge sometimes with private members' bills and having an effect on the treasury. Have you discussed this with the Department of Finance and is there any sense of that issue coming into play in your PMB?
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
There is no royal recommendation on the bill.
Again, I don't visualize that this costs any more because of individuals never achieving parole anyway. There's actually a small savings in not having unnecessary Parole Board hearings. Even in the PBO report they're saying that the amount is only around $2,300 per hearing. We're talking about small savings potentially on the Parole Board side.
I'm not anticipating that this actually increases the cost of incarceration, because again, the evidence is that these individuals never get released. Whether they're released at year 25 versus year 40, which is the argument of the $1.1 million that the PBO makes is based on individuals actually receiving parole. Of course, that's not a fact.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Right.
If we take a look at the people who are incarcerated and would be affected by this because of the longer sentence, how many families, in your rough calculation, would this benefit, say, over the period that the PBO looked at? For instance, if we look at 25 years, how many families are we likely to spare having these Parole Board hearings every two years?
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
If we're only talking about one victim per murderer who abducted, raped and killed their victim, if they're talking three years over 25 years or even 40 years, it's somewhere between 75 and 120 families. I believe that the multiple serial killers, like Robert Pickton or Bruce McArthur, those individuals would fall under Bill C-48 and they wouldn't get the discount for multiple murders.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
Again, we're talking about the Terri-Lynne McClintics and Michael Raffertys where there is just one victim. It is one victim, one family.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Yes.
You and I haven't had a chance to work on many things together and I don't think we've agreed on many things. However, I can say that what you're doing here makes sense to me as an Alberta legislator and as somebody who thinks that when you do the crime, you have to do the time. If we can prevent families from being re-traumatized, then I think it makes sense and you'll have my support.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Thank you very much.
I really appreciate Mr. Bezan's ability to come to the committee today.
We look forward to finishing work on your bill and getting it back to the House.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
Thank you very much, colleagues.
I do hope that we can get it reported back before the session ends.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Thank you so much.
We're briefly going to suspend and come back in camera to continue with online hate.
[Proceedings continue in camera]
