Evidence of meeting #39 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was services.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
In your opinion, there is no problem with getting private lawyers to do these.
12:15 p.m.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
I think it depends, province by province.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Normally, you get three minutes, as per the schedule, but I'm flexible.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
We'll see how it goes.
Thank you very much. I'll direct a couple of my questions to Mr. Clermont about Statistics Canada and his presentation. I just want to look at slide 7. The line indicating the administrative costs is for the country as a whole, I understand.
Do you collect data on individual provincial jurisdictions' administrative costs? Is there a way of measuring those administrative costs versus how many cases? Is it being spent wisely? Which jurisdiction is most efficient, and so on?
12:15 p.m.
Director, Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada
The information is there to make the calculation if someone is interested. We can split the amount of administrative costs per jurisdiction. One can look at the caseload and make their own calculations.
We have to keep in mind that this is an aggregate survey. When we are asking respondents—meaning, legal aid plans—there are only 13 respondents across the country, and they are providing the information for all activities in their jurisdictions. Therefore, there could be slight differences in how they interpret the theme or the concept we are asking the information for. There is always a danger of that, but the information is there for one who wants to do this calculation.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you.
I'll go back to the Department of Justice officials. In your presentation, you mentioned that there were only a few provinces—namely, British Columbia, Alberta, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, and Newfoundland and Labrador—that offer legal aid for immigration and refugee law cases. Why is it that if you are a resident of Saskatchewan, you don't get that kind of coverage?
I understand that this might be a policy decision. What kinds of services exist for refugees and immigrants living in Saskatchewan?
12:15 p.m.
Director, Legal Aid Directorate, Programs Branch, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
Provinces and territories are able to access the immigration and refugee legal aid funding upon giving notice to us. They will then share in the pot. That funding is up for renewal next fiscal year, so depending on the level of funding, more provinces may decide to join into the funding. Of course, if provinces start offering immigration and refugee legal aid services, they will see the demand and there may be pressures on provincial funding for that as well, so that may be a consideration.
In terms of what kinds of services are available in non-participating jurisdictions, there is a mix of services that may be available. There are pro bono services, and there are services that are available through agencies that serve newcomers, but it is not systematic.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
If you look at the statistics of Canada's immigration, you see the three provinces with the three largest cities. You have Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver covered. Is that the basis for offering it, because they statistically receive a lot more?
12:20 p.m.
Director, Legal Aid Directorate, Programs Branch, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
Statistically, Ontario receives the majority of refugee claimants in the country.
12:20 p.m.
Director, Legal Aid Directorate, Programs Branch, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
Therefore, they are the behemoth plan, essentially.
12:20 p.m.
Director General, Programs Branch, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
I was going to add that in 2001, when the federal government started cost sharing or providing a contribution for immigration and refugee legal aid, only six jurisdictions at that time felt that there was enough of a population to warrant those services. Perhaps that has changed over the years. As Hana said, depending on budget decisions and renewal opportunities, perhaps more provinces would join.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Thank you very much, Mr. MacGregor.
Before I thank the witnesses, because I don't want to lose the members of the committee, we have the request for the project budget approval for our study on Bill S-201 in the amount of $11,100.
Do I have the approval of members of the committee to agree to this budget so that we can reimburse the witnesses on Bill S-201?
Mr. McKinnon, will you move that?
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
12:20 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Thank you very much.
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the witnesses very much. Your testimony was most helpful.
My only request is for Ms. Hruska. In response to the question from Mr. MacGregor relating to the Supreme Court case, you answered, yes, there's been a Supreme Court case but there were no specifics provided. Would you be able to provide the citations of any Supreme Court cases to us so we can look at them if we like?
12:20 p.m.
Director, Legal Aid Directorate, Programs Branch, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
Yes.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
Perhaps I might make the suggestion that we cancel next Tuesday's meeting. There's always been a bit of uncertainty in the week before Christmas. It seems to me we'd be better off getting at this when we return at the end of January. It's just a suggestion.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
I believe, however, we have multiple witnesses already lined up, including the Canadian Bar Association.
I will look to the members of the committee but I think it's very likely we're going to be here on Tuesday.
If it's okay with you, we'll continue—sorry. We have not scheduled a meeting for Thursday given the uncertainty for Thursday.
Thanks very much, everyone. The meeting is adjourned,
