Evidence of meeting #56 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cannabis.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

William F. Pentney  Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

The courtwork program has been around for a long time. I'm very pleased that we were able to inject $4 million into the courtwork program and budget last year. The courtworkers provide indigenous peoples who are confronted in the criminal justice system with a friendly face, somebody who can assist them in navigating courtrooms and procedures, in some cases articulating within the courtroom on behalf of the individual, but providing a more comfortable place for individuals who find themselves in the courts.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB

I understand. I have to share a personal anecdote with you, Minister. I chose not to go to law school. So to be a member of Parliament and sit on the justice committee and be able to ask questions of the justice minister is a particular geeky thrill for me today so I'm happy that you're here.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

I'm happy then.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB

What are we doing as a Ministry of Justice to protect and promote the rights of LGBTQ people in Canada?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

A geeky note I think is pretty fantastic. In the words of the Prime Minister, as a country we are strong because of our diversity, and as Minister of Justice I am committed, as is our government, to ensuring that the rights of all Canadians are upheld and propelled. In LGBTQ2 rights it was my great pleasure to build upon the substantive work that advocates of the trans community have been putting forward for years to introduce Bill C-16, which seeks to add gender identity and gender expression as a prohibited ground in the Canadian Human Rights Act, as well as make amendments to the Criminal Code to add gender identity and expression to the identifiable groups and add as an aggravating circumstance in sentencing to ensure that people can be free to be who they are, to express their gender identity and expression in a way they see fit. I'm also very pleased that the Prime Minister has put a substantive focus on LGBTQ2 people, and has appointed a secretariat headed by you, Mr. Boissonnault, to assist in this regard and to ensure that their rights are advanced in a substantive and a concrete way.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB

It's a great honour to serve in this role, and I thank you and the officials for the constructive relationship and the progressive approach that we have to a range of issues, including repealing section 159 of the Criminal Code, and I know there's more to come.

For a few moments, I would like to put on my old hat as parliamentary secretary for official languages and congratulate you on your work with Minister Mélanie Joly regarding the decision to appoint functionally bilingual justices to the Supreme Court. I consider this a tremendous step forward for official language minority communities right across the country.

We know that the official languages committee is studying the full implementation of the Official Languages Act in the criminal justice system. What are some of your goals or hopes; what would you like to see improved in providing access to the justice system to minority language communities?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

As an overarching statement, individuals have the right to be heard and to go through the justice system benefiting from both official languages. I was pleased to see $2 million was provided to court administration services to further assist in making decisions available in both languages. You spoke about it, and again I'm really proud of the process the Prime Minister put in place to ensure that appointments to the Supreme Court of Canada are incredibly meritorious, diverse, and that all are functionally bilingual. We certainly received all those things with the Prime Minister's appointment of Mr. Justice Malcolm Rowe.

May 11th, 2017 / 3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB

Thank you very much.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Mr. MacGregor.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for appearing before this committee.

I want to read out something from the Liberal platform of 2015: “Arresting and prosecuting these” —cannabis—“offenses is expensive for our criminal justice system. It traps too many Canadians in the criminal justice system for minor, non-violent offenses.”

Minister, would you still agree with that statement?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

In terms of cannabis—

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

The fact that arresting and prosecuting for these offences is expensive for the criminal justice system, that it ties up the criminal justice system. Would you agree with that statement from the Liberal platform from 2015?

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

In terms of that being on the Liberal platform, this is why we have introduced Bill C-45 to legalize, strictly regulate, and restrict access to cannabis in order to keep it out of the hands of kids and the proceeds out of the hands of criminals. We have had much discussion about simply decriminalizing, but simply decriminalizing would not achieve those objectives. That is why we are working extremely hard, based on the input of the task force and working with the provinces and territories, to ensure we move forward and have a comprehensive regime that in the near future will assist us in achieving those objectives.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Minister, I take that as a yes, a long yes.

When I've spoken with police forces in local areas, such as the police from Victoria and Saanich on Vancouver Island, and asked them about why they're not enforcing marijuana possession offences, charging people for it, they say they have more important things to look at. But when you look at police forces across the country, it's a real patchwork quilt. In other words, the law is not being applied equally, and I don't think it lives up to the standards of a Canadian being a Canadian across this great land of ours.

I'm wondering, with all the interim costs—and I understand you want to keep it out of the hands of children, but your government has admitted many times that it's easier for a teenager to get marijuana now on a street corner than it is to get alcohol or cigarettes. That's a fact. I'm simply wondering why your government feels it's still necessary to keep applying criminal law, which you have admitted is unjust, while we wait for legalization to come through. Surely it would be a good gesture to get rid of criminal records, which I think we can all admit do a lot of harm to people's lives in terms of their job prospects, their ability to travel, and so on.

I'm wondering why you couldn't simply give directions to prosecutors, to police, across this country to make sure that instead of a patchwork quilt, we have equal application of law.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

On the latter question respecting criminal records, certainly the Prime Minister has indicated this is not within my domain but is something the Minister of Public Safety will ultimately be looking at with regard to criminal records.

In terms of unequal application of the law, this is the nature of our federation. Again, I'll underscore that we are working in a collaborative manner with the provinces and territories. We have taken the time we deemed necessary to ensure that we got a substantive amount of input from public health experts, justice, law enforcement, plus the task force on cannabis, to help contribute toward the bill that we introduced to get to the place where we can legalize, strictly regulate, and restrict access to achieve the objectives that I've reiterated many times, keeping cannabis out of the hands of kids and the proceeds out of the hands of criminals.

Until that time, until this piece of legislation receives royal assent, the law is the law and we expect local law enforcement officers to do their jobs.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Yes, Minister, but you just said in your statement that the unequal application of the law is the nature of our federation. Surely that is reason enough for the federal government in the interim to take the appropriate stance to make sure there is equal application of the law across this country.

Again, why haven't you stepped in, as an interim measure, to do that? Surely it begs the question.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

I appreciate your great interest in this and wishing to achieve the objectives that you've very clearly articulated. I would look to you, and to all the members of this committee and all parliamentarians, to move this legislation as quickly as possible through Parliament so we can get to the place where we achieve the objectives and the purpose that's articulated.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

I think my time is getting close here. I think you said that the Prime Minister mentioned previously that pardons for criminal records for marijuana convictions might be on the table. He has stated there have been many situations in history when laws come in that overturn previous convictions, and a process for that will be set up in a responsible way.

Can you outline to this committee exactly what kind of discussions you've had with the Prime Minister and your colleague, the Minister of Public Safety, and how some sort of a regime for pardons may come about for those who have previous convictions for possession of small amounts of cannabis?

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

The Minister of Public Safety, the Minister of Health, and I are entirely focused on ensuring that we move Bill C-45 forward, doing everything we can to work with our counterparts in the provinces and territories to assist them in developing whatever regime they deem appropriate. Once we move this legislation forward we may change our focus, but right now this is the focus and this is the entirety of the conversations we've been having with respect to cannabis.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Okay.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather

Thank you very much.

Mr. Bittle, it's your turn.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

Minister, thank you for joining us. I know a lot of Canadians would be terrified to enter a room with this many lawyers, but I thank you for being here.

I'd like to speak to the creation of 28 new positions in superior courts, an increase of $55 million over five years, and $15.5 million ongoing. My understanding is that this is addressing delays and responding to the Jordan decision that will require a multipronged approach, including collaboration with provincial and territorial leaders.

Can you discuss whether this funding is part of a broader strategy to address those delays?

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

Yes, in addition to the revamping of the judicial appointments process, I and my officials have been speaking with many different jurisdictions around the need to have additional judicial spaces, and as you articulated, I was very pleased to see in the budget that we received the dollars for 28 new judicial spaces.

Twelve of the 28 have been allocated to Alberta, one to the Yukon, and my officials and I are continuing to work with other jurisdictions to understand their business case and need for additional judicial spaces. We will be continuing to do this work to allocate the remaining spots.

Broadly speaking, in terms of your question with respect to the Jordan decision from the Supreme Court of Canada, this is definitely a concern of mine and my counterpart ministers of justice and attorneys general across the country. We had the opportunity as recently as two weeks ago, I believe, to meet collectively and talk specifically about delays, and how we can assist each other in our shared responsibility for the administration of justice.

Without question, my counterparts talk to me about the need to have judicial appointments in their jurisdictions, but they also recognize that there's no one solution to delays in the criminal justice system, and we collectively identified a number of priorities we would address that seek to assist in reducing delays, priorities around minimal penalties, bail, the administration of justice, looking at the reclassification of offences, and preliminary inquiries.

I was very pleased with the collaborative approach that we were able to achieve at that meeting, and I look forward to the work we're going to be bringing forward in the near future and into the fall.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

That's wonderful. Thank you so much.

There's an increase in funding for the Canadian Judicial Council of $2.7 million over five years and $0.5 million ongoing.

Can you please comment on why you think judicial training is important, and what challenges you think will be addressed by this funding?

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Jody Wilson-Raybould Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC

Again, I was pleased to see these dollars allocated. I'm further pleased, since becoming Minister of Justice, to rebuild a substantive relationship with the Canadian Judicial Council and to benefit from appearing before from them twice now.

I recognize that we need to do everything we can in the justice system to ensure we are providing respect and dignity for the diversity of individuals who come before judges, as well as to ensure that judges receive the necessary training to account for our changing environment, whether that be understanding implicit bias or understanding how to deal most appropriately with victims of sexual assault.

The monies that have been allocated will go towards the Canadian Judicial Council in terms of doing the work to provide judges with the necessary training to be familiar with how to recognize implicit bias and how to assist in a dignified way in dealing appropriately with individuals who are victims of sexual assault.