Evidence of meeting #79 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Ms. Campbell, you mentioned that it was your impression that a large number of qualified jurists and others were learning French, could speak French. Of the 14 applicants, how many were functionally bilingual?
Chairperson, Independent Advisory Board for Supreme Court of Canada Judicial Appointments
Only those who were interviewed did that test, and more were than weren't. When we put out our report, I think there'll be some indications of the results of the test.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Lastly, just in terms of the consultations that your advisory board had, did the advisory board also consult provincial attorneys general and chief justices of the court? I saw in the terms of reference that your advisory board was required to consult with the chief justice, but there was no mention about provincial attorneys general, or—
Chairperson, Independent Advisory Board for Supreme Court of Canada Judicial Appointments
The minister talked to the attorneys general, yes.
Conservative
December 4th, 2017 / 4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
Minister, thank you for this opportunity.
Ms. Campbell, I remember the day you became Prime Minister. I was in student government at the time, and I remember that it was a moment in time for Canada. I was proud of you then, and I'm proud of you now.
Chairperson, Independent Advisory Board for Supreme Court of Canada Judicial Appointments
Thank you.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
It's an honour to represent you in this place as your member of Parliament for Edmonton Centre.
Chairperson, Independent Advisory Board for Supreme Court of Canada Judicial Appointments
Yes, you do.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
It's a great honour.
As a member of the Liberal indigenous caucus, I really appreciate both your answers on that future moment in time when we will see an indigenous justice on the Supreme Court.
You and I in other forums have had the opportunity to talk about leadership in its many variations, and your work at the Peter Lougheed Leadership College is one of those current manifestations of leadership. I'm interested in how leadership on minority rights—whether it be gender, women's rights, sexual minority rights, the rights of persons with different gender expressions, gender identities—and these issues of minority populations, including visible minorities, that sense of having a voice for minority populations, came into your considerations for choosing a short list.
Chairperson, Independent Advisory Board for Supreme Court of Canada Judicial Appointments
It was part of our terms of reference. The Prime Minister 's marching orders to us were to try to maximize the diversity of the court and to look for candidates who represented all those qualities. One of our committee members is a member of the LGBTQ community and very active. We have an indigenous person on the committee, but also, when we are dealing with the candidates, we ask them to talk to us about their experience of the diversity of Canadian society, and of course, they do it confidentially. Some of them have very interesting experiences of themselves, of their families, whatever.
What we are trying to do is to make sure that the lived reality of Canadians in all of its diversity is understood by people on the courts. Justice Martin has done so many things and has lived so many different types of tensions and dualities in Canadian society that I think that really enriches her humanity and her ability to understand society.
The short answer is that we make it a centrepiece of our inquiries.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
I appreciate that because, as you know, without the Supreme Court, it would have taken a lot longer for sexual orientation to become part of the Canadian human rights legislation in all the provinces and the federal government.
As you know, I am a proud Franco-Albertan.
In my work in the francophone community in Alberta and across the country, I found that growing up in a minority-language community arms you, equips you with a particular lens on society.
I'm interested if, in Justice Martin's case, her experience growing up in the English-language minority of Quebec might have factored in to any of your recommendations for her to be on the short list.
Chairperson, Independent Advisory Board for Supreme Court of Canada Judicial Appointments
It was simply part of this diversity of experience that she has had, her understanding of what it means to be a minority, what it means to have to struggle for your rights. Earlier today I used the expression that there was a patina of humanity on her because of all the things that she has seen and experienced.
Of course, many people do not realize there is a large franco-Albertan community or that the University of Alberta has a francophone campus, which Randy Boissonnault graduated from. These are not just Quebec issues. They are issues of French-language communities across the country, and I think that she is remarkably exposed to the reality of those tensions in Canadian societies in a very humane way.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
One of the interesting things about being from Edmonton—and there was some interesting research done on this—is that as far north as we are, sharing a latitude with Moscow, we Edmontonians don't consider ourselves to be northern. You actually have to go to the real north to experience the north.
How much did Justice Martin's experience with the justice system in the north and with indigenous communities in the north add to that patina of Canadian humanity on her application and her membership on the short list?
Chairperson, Independent Advisory Board for Supreme Court of Canada Judicial Appointments
If you've travelled in the northern communities, you know they have their own particular challenges and their own diversity. Again, it was part of our terms of reference because this search led to the north. One of our members, Sheila MacPherson, who represents the Federation of Law Societies of Canada, practises in Yellowknife and Iqaluit, and is very aware of what it means to have experience working in the courts there.
It's really wonderful because the Supreme Court is not a court where people go.... It's not a learning experience. Yes, you learn a lot, but you have to be able to hit the ground running, and the more experience, the more wisdom, the more understanding of the richness and diversity of Canadian lived experience that a judge takes to the court, the better prepared they are to really do justice in the cases they hear.
Liberal
Randy Boissonnault Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB
I am particularly interested to know if there was anything in Justice Martin's jurisprudence, since you're a woman of so many firsts, that particularly led you personally to want to see her name on the short list?
Chairperson, Independent Advisory Board for Supreme Court of Canada Judicial Appointments
All of the above...?
It's been interesting that since I am the author of the “rape-shield” provisions in the Criminal Code, that they're back in fashion in terms of popular discussion. Of course, her own jurisprudence on that issue, I think, is dear to my heart because of my own work in crafting the law.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Thank you very much.
Mr. Liepert, and then Mr. MacGregor, and then the round is over.
Mr. Liepert.
Conservative
Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB
Thanks to both of you for being here, as everyone has mentioned.
The area of law is not one that I feel I have much expertise in, yet I'm surrounded by a number of people who do. What I do is that I go to those who do have expertise, ask them for their opinion, and then voice their opinion. I can tell you that I communicated with a number of people in the legal profession in Alberta, and I would say that all of them would be significantly more conservative than I am. I'd like to read for you a couple of comments that I got back from them regarding the appointment.
The first one is “The appointment of Sheilah Martin to the Supreme Court of Canada is brilliant. Sheilah will be a wonderful addition to the court. She's really smart, loaded with common sense, and most importantly, not a left-wing ideologue.”
The second one is “I can say that I'm a fan of Justice Martin. She is very intelligent, hard-working, thoughtful, and respectful of the law. She is courteous of witnesses, parties, the litigation, and their council and my experience with her, while not frequent, has always been positive.”
I guess as an Alberta MP I really don't have any questions, other than to pass on to both of you some of the comments that came back to me.
They're happy. I'm happy.
Chairperson, Independent Advisory Board for Supreme Court of Canada Judicial Appointments
Could I just make a comment, though?
I think the law should not belong just to lawyers. One of the great gifts that Justice Martin has is as a communicator. She has a great belief in the importance of the public understanding the law. The law should not be mysterious to those who don't practice it or haven't studied it.
I must say that the comments of your friends.... I can't imagine any judge who would not be honoured and thrilled to be thought of in those terms, and they do represent the highest aspiration that anyone would have for a justice in an independent, democratic justice system, so thank you for that.
Conservative
Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB
While the comments came from the legal community, I think they were expressing views of the new appointment that were not necessarily just legal views.
Chairperson, Independent Advisory Board for Supreme Court of Canada Judicial Appointments
Yes. They were wonderful comments.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Anthony Housefather
Thank you, Mr. Liepert.
I want to highlight the point that the contributions of the four non-lawyers on the committee are highly appreciated by the six of us who are lawyers.