Justice Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2021

[Nathalie Levman]

Perhaps I can take the liberty of adding a few comments to my colleague's.

I think your issue relates squarely to the importance of training and risk assessments. Some of that importance appears in the literature that the department will share with the committee for your review.

Regardless of the offences that are in place, if law enforcement cannot detect risk factors early on.... As you point out, quite rightly, sometimes those risk factors are considered what they call “low-level offending”, but even though they're low-level and may not even constitute a criminal offence—or even if they do, a less serious one—they may all the same be indicative of very serious offending coming down the line.

That's where training of police officers and risk assessment tools come in, and that issue is highlighted in one of the articles we intend to share with you.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you very much.

I know I'm just about out of time, and so is the committee. I just want to return to something that was raised by Madam Findlay at the beginning.

That is the impact upon children in families in which a controlling behaviour takes place. Certainly I'm no expert, but I've begun to learn a lot about this, and I guess the biggest surprise to me was the very direct impacts upon children who witness this form of violence in their family relationships.

Perhaps I'll turn to Ms. Smylie—and anyone else—concerning the literature on the impacts upon children.

[Lisa Smylie]

The impact of this type of violence on children is noted in the literature as varied. It ranges, for example, from mental health impacts—and long-term mental health impacts.... Children show symptoms of PTSD, depression and anxiety. Children also show school disengagement and less success in school, difficulty concentrating.

There also is research that suggests generational patterns of violence. There is research that suggests that children who have witnessed violence sometimes go on to engage in that behaviour later in life themselves.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Madam Chair, I know you're signalling that we're almost out of time. Let me just thank the witnesses today for getting us off to a good start on our study. I really appreciate the contribution they made today.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Mr. Garrison.

Now we'll go to Madam Findlay for five minutes.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you.

This is such an important conversation. I also thank you for your contributions. Ms. Levman wasn't here when I started, but thanks; it's good to see you again.

Just picking up on the negative impacts of all of this again for a moment first, although COVID measures have been important and necessary, I'm concerned about the unseen consequences. I say unseen, though maybe they're not unseen to those of you who are part of all this for a living, but they are generally in the public mind.

We are hearing, as members of Parliament, a lot of distress and concern about the fallout. It's fine for officials to say things such as “stay home”, but while home is a safe place for many, it's not a safe place for the people we're talking about—those who are subject to domestic violence in particular. Addiction and other issues such as that are factors.

We know in British Columbia, where I'm from, that the opiate crisis is very concerning, and deaths from it are up. We hear, at least anecdotally, that suicides are up as well. Pressures and stressors can make these situations even worse, but sometimes they are there just because of the way the perpetrator grew up or has been subject to in earlier life; we know that as well.

You've talked about a lot of money going towards research, data, surveys and analysis, but what about the education of the public in these areas? What would you suggest could be done to make the public more aware that this is something identifiable and that there are options for actions to get away and to heal?

What is being done in the public realm?

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Ms. Smylie, go ahead.

[Lisa Smylie]

With the research investments we've made and the national surveys I've spoken of, what we learned is that people often have not intervened when they witnessed violence because they didn't recognize it as violence. Another reason people noted they didn't intervene is because they didn't think it was serious enough to report. The last, most frequent answer we saw in terms of why people didn't report or didn't intervene is because they didn't know how. What that tells us is that we need to do more in terms of education. We need to educate people on what gender-based violence, intimate partner violence, is and how to recognize it. We need to do more to teach people what resources are out there for help. We need to do more in terms of building people's self-confidence in intervening safely for everyone.

What's under way to do that? Under the federal gender-based violence strategy that I talked about, the Public Health Agency of Canada is investing in the prevention of teen dating violence in particular. In our collaboration with provincial and territorial governments across the country, we have heard of various campaigns that are going on in the context of COVID to educate people on the very things I've noted. Under the federal gender-based violence strategy, the Department for Women and Gender Equality also has things for awareness and education that we're currently working on.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Can I just ask you very quickly, are there any specific programs for indigenous Canadians?

[Lisa Smylie]

I'm going to have to get back to the committee on that. The short answer is yes, but in terms of specifics, I will need to come back to the committee, perhaps in writing.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Madame Findlay.

Last, but definitely not least, we'll go to Mr. Maloney for five minutes. He will be our last questioner for the meeting.

Go ahead, sir.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. With that introduction, I feel a lot of responsibility here.

First, thank you to the witnesses, as others have mentioned, for the introduction to this very important topic. I used to be involved with the Catholic Children's Aid Society of Toronto, and I've seen some horrific cases that shouldn't be repeated. I learned a couple of things from that. One of the things I learned is that the people involved in the process are heroes and the system is severely underfunded—which is an issue that I suppose we can deal with later.

I have a couple of questions on topics that came up earlier. I know there has been discussion about the Divorce Act and the changes that are coming into force on March 1 with respect to coercive and controlling behaviour. I wasn't quite clear on the context of those changes. With some of what Ms. Farid was saying earlier, the translation went a bit awry, so I'm not sure if I'm asking you to repeat something you've already discussed.

My understanding of the Divorce Act is that divorce is no fault, so I'm not sure how to contextualize that issue. If someone could explain that to me for starters, I would be grateful.

[Claire Farid]

I would say that the main way the issue of coercive and controlling is being dealt with under the Divorce Act is its inclusion in the definition of family violence. That definition of family violence is used to determine the child's best interest and we're using the best-interest test in order to determine parenting arrangements, who has parenting time and decision-making with respect to the child.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

That's helpful. I appreciate that.

Because it's a civil issue, the onus is different than in a criminal context. Is that correct?

[Claire Farid]

It's a civil onus, and the definition of family violence specifically indicates that there does not have to be a criminal offence for the behaviour to come within the definition of family violence.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

This is a brand new provision that's being included in the Divorce Act next month.

[Claire Farid]

That's right.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Okay.

I'm going to pick up on some questions Mr. Moore had asked about types of behaviour that might support charges of repeatedly and continuously engaging in controlling and coercive conduct. I think he ran out of time when he was asking the question, and it might have been Ms. Levman who was about to answer.

Is there a list of behaviours somewhere that we could find? If so, is it part of legislation or regulation?

[Nathalie Levman]

I think that one of your best sources is the U.K. guidance. A few pages in, there is a box that highlights some of these behaviours. They range from isolating a person from friends and family, monitoring their time, etc., all the way to sexual assault, threats, etc., which are criminal offences. That might help you to understand what is captured by this proposed new coercive control offence.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I'm sorry, is that in the English legislation you are talking about?

[Nathalie Levman]

Actually, there is special prosecutorial guidance that helps their law enforcement implement the new law. It's in their treatment—

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

But it's there, not here. Okay.

[Nathalie Levman]

Yes, it's there.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

All right. There is, then, no similar list of behaviours that are part of this draft legislation anywhere.