Evidence of meeting #19 for Justice and Human Rights in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was domestic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Executive Director, Sussex Vale Transition House
I'm not quite sure I understand your question.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Well, there's the reluctance of victims, quite often, to approach the system because of what happens to them in the system. Are there supports or things that we could do to facilitate using those protections that are available?
Executive Director, Sussex Vale Transition House
Well, I think that victims have a great fear that they are going to lose their children if they even bring it up, so to have reinforcement as to the security and the safety that they would have of their children.... That's a big stopper for women's even coming to shelters because child protective services have to be informed, and they are afraid that their children are just going to be taken from them. There's a lot of misinformation there. I think that that, and actually having legal aid easily accessible, would be a great help to them.
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
In the very little time we have left, Ms. Walker, I know you would like to chime in on the same question.
Executive Director, London Abused Women's Centre
Well, I think the most important thing we can do is understand that there is a link between the family court and the criminal court. My concern about coercive behaviours is that so often judges are blaming women for being the ones that are coercive. Women are often blamed. They are losing their children to the courts. They are actually at high risk because the courts are releasing men, withdrawing their charges. To add bits and pieces again does not help women overall. You've opened the gates. You've added something that we can all support. What I'm saying to you, though, is that we need it to be supported under the umbrella of something bigger.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid
Thank you very much, Mr. Garrison.
We have 10 minutes before we conclude our meeting. Just like we did in our first round, I would like to offer members the opportunity of two minutes per representative of each party to ask a question. Can I see a thumbs-up that I have everybody's consent on that?
Mr. Moore, I don't see your thumb.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid
It is, but given that it's closer to time and as per the discretion allowed to me through our routine motions, I'm just trying to be as equitable as I can be with everybody's time in making sure that the meeting does not go overboard.
Conservative
Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB
—is that this happened the last round. In this case, it's Madam Findlay's turn. We agreed upon the speaking times for each party and each member, and it's her turn, but now we're asking her to split her time four ways. That's not what we agreed to. I don't want to belabour the point, but it seems unfair to me to ask someone to split her time four ways.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid
You're absolutely fine. I understand that, Mr. Moore.
Mr. Garrison, did you want to add something?
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Under your proposal, Madam Chair, I would give my two minutes to Madam Findlay.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid
Okay. All right.
We'll start with Madam Findlay, and then we'll go on to at least complete that second round.
Go ahead, Madam Findlay.
Conservative
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you very much.
Thank you all for being here today. This is a very difficult topic, as we know. I know from having many years in family law and seeing these matters play out that the awareness is really just emerging, I would say.
I've been in front of many judges where the effect on children was completely disregarded as a non-issue, and we know that's not true.
Also, in partial answer to some of my colleagues' questions, I would just say that abusive patterns are incremental. Often they start out in harmony, but the whole idea of abuse is to lure in the other person, so you see a lot of partial reinforcement and an escalation of the abuse over time. It's not usually that it happens just right out of the gate like what happened to Kamal, and that may be partly because of how it was an arranged marriage and her youth.
Kamal, it's good to see you again. You are a courageous woman. I have read both your books. I recommend them to everyone here, Black and Blue Sari and I Am Kamal. They are chilling reading, but they are important for people to understand just what's going on.
Kamal, in your first book, you describe your experiences, and you mentioned some of them today, horrific torturous abuses. I know that you've been through many surgeries and reconstructions to get yourself feeling physically a little more strong. I noticed in that book that you were led to believe that the things that had happened to you had not happened. In other words, there was a mental mind control as well, suggesting that you were hearing voices or that you were the one that was the problem, that you were mentally ill or whatever. Could you speak about the impacts, specifically with regard to that psychological abuse, that both the verbal and physical abuse created within you and your fear around those?
Author, As an Individual
Good to see you, Kerry.
That situation I was describing happened in a doctor's office with the doctor's and my husband's involvement. The doctor believed everything my husband was telling him because he was more vocal than I was. My silence was perceived to be that I was hiding something or didn't want to tell the truth. My silence was guilt to them.
I didn't know the word “brainwashed” at the time, and that was exactly what it was. He said if I loved him, I should tell him. If I loved the children, I should do this. Eventually it got to the point where his words were the only words I heard because nobody else intervened. I began to think I was worthless to him, to everybody around me and to God. He would say I was completely worthless. I think a lot of victims hear that word “worthless”. That's what I'm doing through my talks: unmasking those labels and telling them to put on new ones, because they're worth it.
Conservative
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Would you agree with me that women with children are particularly vulnerable? A lot of women will put up with things they think to protect their children or because of fear of losing the children, as other witnesses have mentioned. They might be able to get away if it was just them. Being a mother puts you in a particularly vulnerable position, would you say?
Author, As an Individual
It certainly does because now you have the children to think about. Often children don't want to leave the comforts of their home. They don't want to leave daddy. They love daddy, they just don't love what he does, and so it makes it equal....
As you know from my story, I have four children and I had to kidnap two of my children from another country— [Inaudible—Editor] you're a politician—and smuggle them into the country, and I did it alone. There were things I had to fight and children made it more difficult, but I'm so glad they're with me and the—
Conservative
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
We don't have much more time, but what do you think the federal government should be doing to be more proactive to prevent abuse rather than reactive?
Author, As an Individual
There isn't a proper crime bill to ensure when we report sexual abuse, physical abuse, even death.... We've seen the crime doesn't fit the punishment. We need to know when we're reporting, it's going to be taken seriously and we will have protection. Not just a piece of paper that says “restraining order”, but something like an ankle bracelet, something more concrete, where the victims are protected and the perpetrator cannot lie and say he wasn't there.
Conservative
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you very much.
And thank you, Mr. Garrison, for your charity.
Liberal
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses. All of you have shared some very vital information, Ms. Walker and Ms. Matthews, on what you do every day to help women. I've heard Ms. Dhillon's story several times, and it brings chills every time. It's a very heartbreaking story.
Ms. Matthews, do you think that legislation that would prevent women from enduring abuse, which would consider controlling and coercive behaviour a crime, might prevent further abuse so women who get into more violent situations later are able to go to the law under such provisions? Do you think this would be a helpful piece of legislation?