Evidence of meeting #31 for Justice and Human Rights in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was court.
A video is available from Parliament.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid
Thank you.
Thank you very much, Ms. Damoff.
We'll now go to Monsieur Fortin for two and a half minutes.
1:05 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I agree with Mr. Moore that there is a lot of talk about the entire administration of the justice system. In addition, I do agree with the witnesses that there are clearly elements for improvement in terms of barriers to be removed, among other things. So certain actions that are currently considered as offences shouldn't be.
That said, this entire situation is exacerbated by the problems experienced during the COVID-19 pandemic. I would like to hear Mr. Brown speak to virtual hearings.
I understand that those hearings have a significant impact, especially on determining the credibility of witnesses. What do you think are the advantages and disadvantages of virtual hearing, be they fully virtual or only partially?
1:05 p.m.
Vice-President, Criminal Lawyers' Association of Ontario
One of the benefits, absolutely, is the fact that it's easy to get everyone in the same place at the same time. People don't necessarily have to travel from far distances.
One of the other benefits we hear from judges is the ability to see everyone's faces at the same time. Often a piece of evidence is heard, and the judge is trying to look in various places in the courtroom to gauge the reaction of the parties, to watch the witness or the accused person. This allows an opportunity to see the whole room. Those are the benefits.
The disadvantage is that we don't know what's happening behind the scenes. There may be cases—and we've certainly seen examples in the U.S.—where a witness is testifying, and the accused person is in the next room coaching them.
We do have some concerns about privacy and about whether or not the integrity of the system is being undermined in some cases. However, I think there are lots of advantages to focus on.
1:05 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
In terms of controlling time frames, do you not think that being able to proceed more quickly using the virtual method helps eliminate certain barriers?
1:05 p.m.
Vice-President, Criminal Lawyers' Association of Ontario
In our experience, the resources that are required to run the courtroom, the staffing and the judges, don't change just because we've removed it from a physical courtroom to a virtual one. The problem isn't the courtroom case, then; it's the people who need to be in the courtroom to process the case, and that hasn't changed.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid
Thank you, Mr. Fortin.
Last but not least, we'll now go to Mr. Garrison for two and a half minutes.
1:05 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Thank you very much.
Earlier this week, we heard some disturbing testimony from the Elizabeth Fry Society about the impacts of COVID on the legal rights of those who are incarcerated at this time. The witness talked about sustained lack of access to legal counsel. She talked about delays and problems with access to parole hearings. I had a separate meeting with the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples, who raised those same concerns.
I'd like to ask Mr. Lafond to comment on the impacts of COVID on the access to the legal system and to legal counsel for those who are already incarcerated.
1:05 p.m.
President, Indigenous Bar Association in Canada
I'd just like to hark back to the results of the study we performed at the University of Saskatchewan that spoke primarily to jurisdictional issues. There were concerns raised about case delays and how processes, which have slowed since COVID, have had the effect of deferring the assertion or development of indigenous rights.
Specifically with respect to the delays in the justice system and the ability of accused to have their cases heard in a timely manner, this wasn't a central focus of the participants in the study. It was primarily dealing with the assertion of jurisdictional issues and the ability of different jurisdictions to co-operate with one another to have matters of conflict mediated or adjudicated in a timely fashion.
1:10 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Thank you very much.
I wonder if other members of the panel have run into this problem of lack of access to legal counsel and an inability to access legal rights for those who are incarcerated during COVID.
1:10 p.m.
President, Criminal Lawyers' Association of Ontario
I can address that, Madam Chair, very briefly.
It is a serious issue. As you know, jails are meant to keep things out. They have very thick walls, and it's even hard to run wires in, we're told, so the lack of communication to the jails is a serious problem.
We've been working with the regional justices and with the Ministry of the Attorney General and the Ministry of the Solicitor General to try to solve it. Communication is key to get things moving with our clients and with the Crown attorneys.
As a result, if we don't have the ability to get in by video to show a disclosure and by audio to get instructions, it will slow things down, so an investment in communication would be very welcome.
Thank you.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid
Thank you very much for that. That concludes our rounds of questions. At this time, I'd like to thank our panellists, our witnesses, for their very compelling testimony today. If there are any shortcomings or anything you'd like to clarify, please do provide written submissions to the clerk. We'd be happy to receive them.
Thank you, everybody.
At this time the meeting now stands adjourned.