Justice Committee on May 11th, 2021

[Terry Lake]

Thank you, Mr. Sarai.

Our president, Aly Devji, has the same background you do. His family started a care home in Delta. He has been there since he was about 10 weeks old, so he has a similar background.

The contracted providers have to provide a number of hours of care per day. In British Columbia currently, it is 3.36, so they must have the staff required to meet that standard of 3.36. It can be extremely challenging to find people to staff.

We had a nursing home in the neighbouring community of Merritt announce just this week that they are closing their long-term care home. Part of the reason for closing those 20 beds is that they simply cannot recruit and retain staff in order to provide those hours of care. It is an ongoing challenge and one that needs to be addressed very quickly.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Has there been any review provincially with regard to changing the proportion of funding there in order to adequately increase salaries of those who work there and therefore attract better talent, whether it was when you were the minister or in the subsequent government? It's not a partisan issue. I'm just trying to find out.

[Terry Lake]

Absolutely, and we started raising hours of care when I was minister. That has continued under the current government and, to their credit, the current government in British Columbia has instituted wage levelling, so that everyone essentially is getting paid the same wage for doing the same job. Benefits may vary from contractor to health authorities, but that has largely been addressed in recognizing that we need to pay people a living wage and that to attract people into this career we must make it attractive. The people who are in it are passionate and they're fulfilled, but they need to be paid better.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Have you anything quick on elder abuse that you've seen in your facilities and that needs to be remedied quickly?

[Terry Lake]

Well, the biggest incident of elder abuse in our country was the lack of people to take care of our elders during the pandemic.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much for that.

I see that it is one o'clock, but I do have Monsieur Fortin and Mr. Garrison still remaining with two and a half minutes each.

With members' permission, we'll go to Monsieur Fortin for his two and a half minutes.

Please go ahead, sir.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll try to be quick.

I want to raise a specific issue with this panel.

Ms. Schoepflin, I want to talk about protection for seniors who are whistle-blowers. We've talked a lot about how to protect them, but how to go about it is less clear. One way or another, it's problematic.

That said, what can we do to encourage them? Is there some mechanism we could put in place to encourage those who feel comfortable reporting the abuse?

[Bénédicte Schoepflin]

Thank you for your question.

An important consideration in the case of a senior who may wish to report an abusive situation is that, very often, the abuser is a family member or someone they are close to. That can prevent them from reporting the abuse or limit their ability to do so. Something else to keep in mind is that seniors are sometimes afraid to speak to police and get involved in the justice system. Involving the police can make the situation seem more serious and real for the victim, making them feel that they wouldn't be able to take it back afterwards if they wanted to, because it would be too late.

However, we know that, before involving the authorities, seniors often talk to someone who is close to them or a friend. A good idea would be to take the necessary actions to raise widespread public awareness of elder abuse. That way, should a senior confide in their neighbour, for instance, about how their son was treating them, the neighbour would know how to respond and what to say. That, alone, would be an excellent first step, one that could help the victim feel more confident and prompt them to take the next step, knowing that there is help.

Another option might be to focus on the relationship between the victim and the abuser, perhaps by bringing in a mediation expert, who could help defuse the situation before it got worse.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Mediation is an excellent idea, I think.

Thank you very much, Ms. Schoepflin.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Mr. Garrison for two and a half minutes.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

My last questions here will be for Elder Abuse Prevention Ontario.

We've certainly had some very disturbing news about at least two of the care homes where the Canadian military had to intervene. Not only were there high levels of death among residents from COVID, but there were additional deaths resulting from the failure to provide the necessities of life. We've heard previous testimony about some kind of reluctance to investigate these cases, both from the coroner's office and the police, and there have never been any charges laid in these cases.

Is it your experience that there has been a reluctance in these institutional cases to fully investigate, and that there have never been any charges that we know of?

[Marta Hajek]

Thank you, Mr. Garrison.

The long-term care home environment is not something we have total penetration into. As a community agency, we are responding to things mostly within the community. We are privy to some of the developments within long-term care. We have had an opportunity to read the various reports that have been put forward, but as far as the reluctance goes, I cannot personally speak to that.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

May I ask the same question of the Canadian Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse?

[Kathy Majowski]

I have a similar answer, but I can speak anecdotally.

When it comes to victims of abuse or neglect, with older adults, whether in long-term care settings or in community settings, service providers don't necessarily take the information as seriously as they would if the victim were younger. Whether that is related to ageism or to this notion that older adults have lived a long life and that it's a family matter, a private matter, those are potential underlying issues that may prevent people from coming forward. Service providers and community organizations that are not trained in elder abuse prevention or are not familiar with elder abuse and ageism may not respond in as fulsome a way as they would if the victim were younger.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thanks very much.

I want to thank the witnesses again for their testimony today, and also for those who shared difficult stories about the circumstances of individuals who have suffered elder abuse. I think it's very important for the committee to hear those stories. I know some of them are very personal, so thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Mr. Garrison.

Thank you, on behalf of the committee, to all of the witnesses for their very compelling testimony. If there are clarifications or additional information that you would like to provide to the committee, please do send it in writing to Mr. Clerk via email so we can include them in our deliberations.

I have two quick housekeeping items for members.

Members, there was an opportunity. We had exhausted the witness list in terms of invitations. There was a slot that had opened up for Tuesday. Given the area of questioning, etc., that I'd seen over the past couple of meetings, I did invite Stats Canada departmental officials to come before us to answer some of the questions that I've heard multiple members ask. That will be on May 25. They will be one of our panellists.

As a quick reminder, at our next meeting we will be taking the last 30 minutes to talk about some of the drafting instructions and recommendations for this report before we go into constituency week, so our analysts can have a bit of a head start in putting together the report.

If you have any questions, please do get in touch with me or with Mr. Clerk.

Thanks, everyone.

The meeting is adjourned.