Justice Committee on May 11th, 2021

[Bénédicte Schoepflin, Executive Director, Canadian Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse]

I'm not sure if Kathy's sound is in the clear, so I'll take this one.

Overall, we're facing a situation where we have extremely spotty data about elder abuse in general. The research is still scarce. We have big gaps in terms of, for instance, interventions. What interventions work and what interventions don't work? There's also criminal justice. What is the actual impact of it on elder abuse occurrence and on the victims?

I could go on. We recently compiled a whole list while working on our strategy. It would help tremendously in shaping the way we think of elder abuse, the way we plan to address it, and the policies and practices we could disseminate further across the country if we had a fuller picture. I know that this was something, as we mentioned in the blog post statement, that was a priority for the Minister of Seniors. We were really hoping to see a more specific mention of elder abuse.

As Marta Hajek was mentioning earlier in her speech, elder abuse, whether we're talking about direct services or any approach, quite often is folded in with other services and folded in with approaches of other issues. It gets a little forgotten in the mix. We were really hoping for much more pointed mentions of it.

To be fair, though, we were still very happy to see—

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

More specific identification is what you're looking for.

[Bénédicte Schoepflin]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

I'm sorry, Madam Findlay. I have to stop your time.

Ms. Majowski, your sound issue has been fixed.

Ms. Schoepflin, your Internet is coming in and out. There's a bit of breakage in what you're saying. I just wanted to flag that.

I will now resume your time, Madam Findlay. Please go ahead.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

I thought it was just me, Madam Chair.

I know very well from my previous role as minister of national revenue that phishing calls and emails from criminals pretending to be the CRA often target seniors. I imagine this issue is particularly relevant right now, given that it's tax season, census week, and we're still in the midst of a pandemic.

Could either of you speak to this issue and how it has maybe evolved during the pandemic? Is there anything the government can do to help, or more that can be done, whether it be amendments to the Criminal Code, greater enforcement of existing laws, education or something else? I know that this is a real and continuing issue in just trying to make people aware. Could you address that with perhaps a very brief answer?

Ms. Majowski, maybe we can hear you now.

[Kathy Majowski]

Is that a little bit better?

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Definitely.

[Kathy Majowski]

Perfect.

I can definitely speak to that. What has been compounded throughout the pandemic is the isolation that older adults face. Some older adults are connected to more resources than others. We definitely see that older adults who are less connected are more likely to become targets of scams and fraud.

As mentioned, I work as a registered nurse. I work in a community setting. Some of the older adults I support don't have phones. They don't have access to technology. They may or may not have family supports. They are a little bit more at risk. Thankfully, I'm able to connect with them and my team is able to connect with them when they come across concerning information.

We do provide health education. Obviously, prior to COVID we were able to do group education sessions in 55-plus buildings and in areas where seniors groups congregated. That has changed as well. We cannot have group settings. We cannot have those information sessions. Our ability to connect to older adults with that information and that education has also been limited by the pandemic and by COVID. There are many, many things that have an impact.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you.

This question is for Terry Lake.

It's good to see you again, Terry.

I want to thank you and your members for caring for our seniors here in B.C. It's obvious that you provide important care to a lot of our seniors, and ensuring their health, safety and quality of life is very important to me.

I see that you're on an upcoming panel entitled “What Went Right... What Went Wrong? Seniors Care and COVID-19”. Could you briefly tell this committee what you think went right and what went wrong in our care homes during the pandemic?

[Terry Lake]

Your question deserves more than a 30-second response, but as my comments suggested, I think the health human resource crisis that has been unaddressed for years is a key. Second, we focused too much on acute care and not the most vulnerable setting, which was long-term care. This happened in province after province after province. We had empty hospitals, surgeries cancelled, and we really did not see the acute care system stretched. Meanwhile, long-term care was struggling to access PPE, struggling to have enough people working there, struggling to get resources. That was the biggest single factor in our national failure to protect seniors in care.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thanks very much.

We'll now go to MP Stéphane Lauzon for six minutes.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you all for your useful input. The panel's insight will certainly help move the needle on the issue.

Mr. Lake, you spoke a lot about the importance of skilled workers in the delivery of long-term care. You piqued my curiosity. You said workers come from a mix of private and public institutions, which work together.

What role can the government play in training workers? What measures are necessary to prevent a labour shortage?

[Terry Lake]

Thank you for the question, Monsieur Lauzon.

In British Columbia, the curriculum in public and private institutions that train health care aides is certified by the provincial government, so there is a standard of quality which is important. I think putting health care aides into a professional college will increase the ability for continuing education and also, of course, addressing any issues of neglect or abuse.

The Conference Board of Canada says that we need up to 200,000 new long-term care beds in the next couple of decades. With that, of course, we are going to require far more health care aides or personal support workers, more LPNs and more RNs. The domestic supply in Canada will not be sufficient to meet this demand, which is why we have been hopefully optimistic with the developments on the national occupational classification code changes that will allow people with less than a degree to be considered trained and skilled workers and have an easier path to permanent residency in Canada.

Those changes will be implemented probably not until a year after the changes occur. We really hope they will be implemented much, much sooner, so that we can bring people into Canada who will be trained and ready to step into the workforce to care for our elders here. We simply need far more of them than are available today, not only to deal with the growing population of baby boomers who will be coming into the system, but because we need to increase the number of hours of care per day to increase the level of care that our elders deserve.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you very much for your answer.

One thing we are concerned about as a committee is preventing the tragedies that were reported on by the military when they visited these long-term care homes that you mentioned in your remarks, especially in provinces like Ontario and Quebec. Maybe the situation in B.C. has been different, as you mentioned.

In your view, what is important to consider first when establishing new offences and penalties in the Criminal Code related to elder abuse and neglect?

[Terry Lake]

I'm not sure that the current provisions are not sufficient, because neglecting or abusing elders is embedded in the Criminal Code.

The abuse and neglect that we saw, particularly during the first wave in the provinces of Ontario and Quebec, were due to insufficient staff available to look after these very vulnerable Canadians. So many staff fell sick to the virus or were afraid to come to work. We heard reports from the Canadian Armed Forces of 115 residents with only three staff members.

Those three brave people who showed up to do their job were just not enough to keep people from being dehydrated, not having the food they required, and for not being toileted properly. That's because Canada invests 30% less than other OECD countries in the care of seniors. We've all known this for a while.

As a provincial health minister I knew this, and the measures we took to address it were insufficient across the country. The one thing that COVID has shown us is that we need to address the care of seniors in Canada. We need to make the system much stronger than it is today.

I'm hopeful that this will be one of the positive changes that occurs as a result of this pandemic.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you for your answer.

This question is directed to all the witnesses who want to answer. It is a very important question about the mandate letter of two ministers and the Minister of Seniors.

The question is straightforward.

Can data collection make a big difference?

How would the data inform solutions to address job readiness, long-term care and, of course, elder abuse?

Perhaps Madam Hajek can answer this question.

[Marta Hajek]

Thank you, Mr. Lauzon, for the question.

The data collection is really fundamental if there is such a disparity in terms of what is being collected across the various provinces, various sectors, and the partners we work with.

With standardized data, we will be better informed in terms of those policy decision-making initiatives, and to make things a bit more consistent across Canada. Having a community centre that is 15 miles away from where particular residents reside, because there's nothing for them locally, is a reason where the community did not react with the resources that are required where they are required.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lauzon.

We'll now go to Mr. Fortin for six minutes.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being with us today.

I listened as Mr. Lake and others spoke about their previous experience. He used to be a member of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia and a former health minister in the province. Senior care is an issue he has been paying attention to for quite a few years, so he can definitely shed light on certain facets of the issue.

My questions are for you, Mr. Lake. I gather from your remarks that human resources or labour is a problem in senior care. I would think the problem affects almost every province, probably many other countries as well. After all, care is expensive and the work is far from easy.

Legislative assemblies have a larger say in the matter than the federal Parliament does, but let's overlook that for now.

I'd like to hear your comments in relation to something else. As you know, in the federal Parliament, we apply a federal jurisdictional lens. Currently, we are trying to figure out whether we should amend the Criminal Code to better protect seniors.

You mentioned this, and you're right. The Criminal Code already contains provisions that deal with mistreatment, negligence, abuse and so forth, so we shouldn't pass countless provisions to address similar offences.

Would you say the Criminal Code is silent on certain elements?

For instance, the previous panel told us that when a senior is abused or mistreated, the abuser is often a relative or close friend—a neighbour, a friend, a cousin or a nephew, say. The senior, who is often fearful, wants the abuse to stop, but doesn't necessarily want the abuser to be prosecuted or sent to jail.

In your experience, how could we make sure the abuse stops without instituting criminal proceedings against the abuser? Do have any suggestions?

[Terry Lake]

That is an interesting question and one that's quite challenging.

When I talked about the professionalization of health care aides or personal support workers, you could include more training on elder abuse and recognizing situations in which family members may be taking advantage.

We have situations quite frequently where pensions are raided by family members. That leaves the elder in care unable to pay their copayment for their care and hospitality fees. That obviously leaves them in a very dire situation.

I think training those who work closely at the bedside and who interact with the families on a regular basis would be very helpful in preventing or at least spotting early cases of that type of abuse.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Lake.

Yes, I imagine training would play a significant role. Let's say a senior's nephew made them sign a bunch of cheques the week before on the pretext that he needed money for this or that, and the senior reported it to an authority of some sort. What happens in that case? Obviously, the authority can go to the nephew and tell him to repay the money. The senior could be the abuser's father, uncle or cousin. Criminal prosecution is one option.

Are there not other options in terms of penalties or consequences for this type of behaviour?

It goes without saying that I agree with you about training. Training goes hand in hand with prevention. I'm not trying to waste your time with this line of questioning. I just want to know whether any measures that are not currently in place should be.

[Terry Lake]

I would defer to other members of the panel. I think their expertise lies more in this area, Monsieur Fortin.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Lake.

Ms. Majowski, perhaps you could answer.