Justice Committee on May 27th, 2024

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

I have point of order, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Yes.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

I think they believed they had more time.

Can I get unanimous consent from the committee to hear the four recommendations?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you very much.

Please continue.

[Det Sgt Kiran Bisla]

Thank you.

The number of arrests related to hate crimes in 2023 increased from 46 persons in 2022 to 59 persons in 2023.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Madam Chair, on a point of order—

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Please hold on, madam.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

—I think the consensus was just to hear the four recommendations. Am I correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Yes, proceed to the four recommendations, please.

[D/Chief Robert Johnson]

One is obviously in the purview of the province, given that they're responsible for policing. The other three might be appropriate within this forum.

First, create dedicated hate crime units mandating a hate crime course for investigators and culturally sensitive training. This will provide service members with the foundational knowledge of the practice of religions such as Judaism and Islam, as well as enhanced understanding of the community impact of hate crimes, and it will ensure a consistent investigative approach.

Second, adopt a standardized definition of “hate crime”. Conducting community consultations to better understand the definition and controversial slogans is recommended. We know from speaking with the community and our officers that there is a sense of frustration around the lack of clarity as to what constitutes a hate incident as opposed to a hate crime or hate propaganda. A commitment to ongoing education and training for our officers will assist the public and the police in this regard.

Third, remove AG consent as a prerequisite for laying hate crime charges. The rationale is to unleash the power of the common law to evolve the rules around acceptable speech and conduct. Also, banning certain flags or symbols should be considered.

Fourth, the list of banned organizations, as they fund terror and hate, should be updated as many new groups have surfaced since October 7.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you very much.

We will now begin the first round of questions, where every member will have six minutes.

Ms. Gladu, the floor is yours.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here to discuss this very serious and important topic.

In my role as the critic for civil liberties, I'm hearing from across the country concerns that the rule of law is not being enforced equally, especially when we consider anti-Semitic incidents that are happening.

I want to start with the Toronto Police Service.

I'm just going to go through a number of the incidents that have gone on so that you can give us a picture of what's really happening there.

At Christmastime in the Eaton Centre there was a pro-Palestinian demonstration where death threats were made to the police and shoppers were intimidated and harassed. Were there any arrests made as a result of that?

[D/Chief Robert Johnson]

Yes, there were.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Very good.

There was the Avenue Road blocking of the ramp where hundreds of people were gathered and the media had reported that Tim Hortons coffees were brought to the protesters.

It's illegal to block roads. How many of those hundreds of protesters were arrested?

[D/Chief Robert Johnson]

We did arrest a number of protesters. The exact number I don't have. Kiran may have it.

There were subsequent conditions that were placed on those individuals. As a result of the continued protests, we changed our response and footprint around that bridge.

Kiran, do you have any of the statistical information on that?

[Det Sgt Kiran Bisla]

I believe the number was six. I would have to confirm that, though.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

No, that's great. You can send any of these things to the clerk afterwards if you don't have the information right with you.

How many arrests for hate crime have been made since October 7, 2023?

[D/Chief Robert Johnson]

Kiran.

[Det Sgt Kiran Bisla]

Yes, I do have those numbers in front of me.

I have 59 in total, and I can certainly provide the number of arrests that were made after October 7.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

One of the concerns I hear is that, especially in incidents like the blocking of University Avenue in front of Mount Sinai Hospital, it's very difficult for the police with the resources they have to deal with the situation. Have there been any requests made for supplementary resources either from the province or from the federal government? If so, what was that response?

[D/Chief Robert Johnson]

I can tell you we do work with our partners. All the GTA services have helped us with policing personnel to police the protests that are both spontaneous and planned. The province as well has been very receptive to providing resources through the Ontario Provincial Police, so we have had help from our neighbouring police organizations.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

We've seen a lot of intimidation, vandalism of small businesses and also incidents happening on university campuses. Are the Toronto Police able to take action when crimes are committed on university campuses or in front of small businesses?

[D/Chief Robert Johnson]

Yes, if it's a criminal offence, we do take action and investigate those occurrences.

With respect to the University of Toronto, we are working with the administration and the campus police there. When reports of criminal activity occur and they take an occurrence, if they send it to us, we will engage in the investigation. As well, if individual members who might have been the victim of a crime on the university campus come to us directly, we do take that report and investigate it.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Excellent. I think your role is critically important in making sure that people do know that the rule of law will be enforced and that violence, intimidation, harassment, these things will just not be tolerated.

I want to turn to Ms. Saperia from Secure Canada.

You were talking about the concern about foreign actors being involved in some of the activities of the protests. Do we have evidence in Canada of foreign actors that are influencing these pro-Palestinian demonstrations at Canadian universities?