Justice Committee on May 27th, 2024

[Prof. Meric Gertler]

In the current context, they are certainly experienced as anti-Semitic. It's for that reason we have reported certain incidents to the Toronto Police Service. I would say that the proper place is—

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you.

I'm sorry. I have to reclaim my time because I have two more to answer.

President Bacon.

[Dr. Benoit-Antoine Bacon]

They are unfortunate, awful and can be considered anti-Semitic.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you so much.

President Carr.

[Dr. Graham Carr]

Yes, they're reprehensible and intimidating when chanted on campuses.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you very much.

President Carr, I want to ask you a question about your STRIVE task force that you referred to in your testimony.

One of the three co-chairs you appointed to this task force has a long record of supporting BDS and opposing IHRA, which leaves a lack of confidence in the process amongst many of your Jewish students.

Why did you appoint this person, and will you consider removing them as a co-chair?

[Dr. Graham Carr]

Mr. Housefather, one thing that I find very unfortunate in terms of the public discussion that has happened since October is that there has been a very intense personalization of issues. We've seen that in terms of individual students being targeted and individual faculty members being targeted, etc. I think that's extremely unfortunate.

I'm concerned that this—

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

My question is on the confidence question, sir. You have the task force that's tackling anti-Semitism.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

You have 30 seconds.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

You've acknowledged you're against BDS. You've acknowledged you're considering IHRA. One of three co-chairs of the task force rejects what you've just said. How do the Jewish students feel comfortable then?

I only have a second left, but let me ask you what you have done about Concordia SPHR.

This is a group on campus that on October 11 held Israel responsible for the events of October 7 and was a co-signer to a statement on social media where it gave full-throated support to Palestinian terrorism, writing, “We emphasize that a population living under siege and occupation has no option but to resist.”

McGill removed McGill's name from this organization. What has Concordia done?

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you.

Unfortunately, the time is up. I have no choice but to uphold that because we're getting close.

We'll go to Monsieur Fortin for six minutes, but only for six minutes.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank the four witnesses for joining us today.

What's happening on campuses right now is very concerning. I think you are experiencing somewhat similar situations across Canada, including in Quebec.

You have been talking about this since the beginning of your remarks, but I would like to hear you talk more about the challenge that arises when it comes to respecting freedom of expression while avoiding hate speech or outbursts of that nature.

In my view, a university has always been a hotbed for exchanges, even heated exchanges, among students and professors on various subjects, including the thorniest ones. I'm always a little troubled when we talk about limiting freedom of expression, especially at a university.

That said, we believe that hate speech is unacceptable. However, it is difficult to define what is hate and what is not. As we said earlier, Bill C‑63 proposes provisions in this regard.

Another thing I find problematic is what is called the religious exception in the Criminal Code, which allows hate speech or antisemitic speech based on a religious text.

All these things are problematic. I will try to summarize by asking the witnesses my questions in the order in which their names appear on the notice of meeting.

Mr. Carr, at Concordia University, how do you plan to combat the problem of hate speech while respecting freedom of expression? Do encampments actually play an important role in terms of hate speech and freedom of expression?

[Dr. Graham Carr]

I won't talk about the encampments, but I can answer the question by giving you some figures.

Following the events that occurred on our campus on November 8, which I already alluded to, there have been 70 university events led by pro-Palestine and pro-Israel students on campus. I think that shows all the efforts made not only by the university administration, but by our entire community, to ensure that it is always possible to protest and present issues in a respectful and civilized manner.

The university also cancelled or rejected five events, as we had determined that they posed a risk to the community's safety and to the achievement of our university mission, which—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I apologize for being rude in interrupting you, Mr. Carr, but my time is limited.

Can you tell us which five events you decided to reject?

[Dr. Graham Carr]

It was four pro-Palestine events and one pro-Israel event. The events involved people from outside the university who had been invited to give a speech, among other things.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

In your opinion, should people who are not clients of the university—that is to say those who are neither students nor professors of the university—have the right to protest on the university grounds, or should only people who attend the university, either as students or as professors, be able to express themselves there?

[Dr. Graham Carr]

As I said, Concordia University is really located in the heart of Montreal. We are a physical university. A subway station is connected to three of our buildings. In the past, the university has always been open to the public. In the current situation, we want to make sure that public institutions like ours remain open to the citizens of Quebec and Canada, but we have to take into consideration events where people from outside the country come in, as happened on October 8. In that case, the events led to the arrest of two people, and they were not from our community.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

In your opinion, should those people be denied access to the university grounds?

[Dr. Graham Carr]

That's a very difficult question to answer.

We're a university; we're not security officers. Concordia University welcomes nearly 30,000 people a day on its campuses. We have 12 security and prevention officers on the downtown campus, and normally that's enough. As my colleagues have said, the vast majority of our staff and students are respectful.

The challenge is to determine how universities can respond to all of this while maintaining the right to freedom of expression and academic freedom. As you know, Quebec has a piece of legislation on academic freedom. It is not easy to find a balance.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

You're absolutely right.

I don't know how much time I have left, but perhaps Mr. Saini—

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Your time is up, Mr. Fortin.

Thank you very much.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

We will suspend until after the vote. We still have some time left, so we will come back.

We are suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

I call the meeting back to order.

This is what I propose we do. It's 1:26 p.m. We will complete the first round of six minutes with Mr. Garrison. I will go to the second round of five minutes, five minutes, two and half minutes and two and a half minutes and then conclude for the afternoon.

Thank you very much for bearing with us.

We will continue where we left off with six minutes for Mr. Garrison.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank the witnesses for being here today, but I have to say I find it a bit distressing that your testimony doesn't seem to match the reality that I hear from students on campus. They're not just at your institutions, but at institutions in my own riding and across the country.

One of the problems is that while it's great to say anti-Semitism is unacceptable and a Jew should be included in diversity, I don't actually see that in the policies I've been able to access.

I'm going to start with Professor Gertler from U of T. Where in your anti-harassment policies or anywhere else in your policies does it explicitly say anti-Semitism is not acceptable on campus?