Evidence of meeting #107 for Justice and Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was islamophobia.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Thank you.
What do you think is contributing to the rise in Islamophobia that we're seeing in Canada?
12:35 p.m.
General Manager, Toronto Islamic Centre and Community Services
As Dr. Islam mentioned, when people look different, naturally there's ignorance. However, when that's addressed, not just among the common people but by people in power, I think it gives strength and makes it okay to talk about Islam. It's okay to address Islamophobia when the people at the top are also addressing it. It's not a taboo topic anymore and I think that helps.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
This is a question for all of you.
We've seen lots of incidents in the news that have to do with the situation in Gaza and what's happening on the ground in Canada: rail being blocked in B.C., the occupation at Union Station and the many blocked infrastructure demonstrations. What impact do you think this is having on Islamophobia, if any?
We'll start with Omar.
12:40 p.m.
Student, As an Individual
From my perspective, the peaceful protests happening in Canada show the good side of Muslims. For example, we have lots of Christians and Jewish people coming to support us. It just shows, since they're very peaceful protests, that they're not doing anything illegal.
I think people are changing their minds about Islam. Lots of people I've met have started reading about Islam, they've started liking Islam and they've shared their opinion with me about Islam. It's helping to reduce Islamophobia rather than increase it. That's my opinion.
12:40 p.m.
As an Individual
As I mentioned, the rise of anti-Muslim hatred from one category of the building blocks has an unknown effect, but it probably has a real effect on Islamophobia coming from other building blocks. There certainly is a small but real minority of Canadians who think that Canada is a construct for people of European heritage. That construct, that belief, leads to the othering of many different minorities, not just Muslims.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Thank you very much.
We will now go to MP Ehsassi for five minutes.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you very much to all the witnesses.
The testimony you have provided has been very powerful. I know it wasn't easy, but I think you have all established that Islamophobia, regrettably, is alive and well and that as a country, we should be doing much better to combat Islamophobia, much as we do with other hate crimes.
I will start off with Dr. Islam.
Mr. Fortin started off with a question about whether there are commonalities between Islamophobia and anti-Semitism. The reason is that he was wondering whether we could use the same tools for combatting Islamophobia. Obviously, both of them are disconcerting.
You had the opportunity to say that in certain respects, there were overlaps between the two. However, I suspect you also wanted to elaborate on what the particularities of Islamophobia are and why that's significant. Am I correct in my assessment, and would you care to elaborate on that point?
12:40 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes, you are correct in your assessment. Even the word “Islamophobia” is hard to define and is much harder to define than “anti-Semitism”. People are confused and wonder if not liking Islam as a theology makes one an Islamophobe. That's not true. The word is difficult to define. I think it would be clearer if we used the words “anti-Muslim hatred” when it's a more appropriate term to use.
The maintenance of the status quo internationally has a role in Islamophobia here at home. It's done on purpose to make Muslim Canadians into an outside entity or a fifth column. That type of Islamophobia does not have an overlap with anti-Semitism.
As to the people who fall into the great replacement theory in white nationalism, there's a strong overlap there in the root causes and explanations. In fact, the great replacement theory says that it's a Jewish conspiracy to have Muslim, Black or other minorities come to North America to replace the voting bloc. That's ludicrous, but that's what they believe.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Thank you very much for that.
Mr. Babili, I'm so terribly sorry about the indifference you encountered with your elected official and with the University of Victoria. It truly is unacceptable that you went through such a terrible and harrowing experience and that they did not address it appropriately.
Here is my question now for the panellists, and I will start with Mr. Babili. Unfortunately, we've seen a steep rise in anti-Semitism over the course of the past seven months. Is it your assessment that the rise in Islamophobia has increased considerably in the last seven months as well?
12:45 p.m.
Student, As an Individual
That's a great question.
For the past seven months, Islamophobia has increased incredibly. We can see this in the streets, at universities and at protests, where a counterprotester will make racial comments. I believe the answer to that question is that, yes, it has increased.
June 3rd, 2024 / 12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Let's also go to Dr. Islam, Mr. Nalir and Ms. Shilbayeh.
Dr. Islam, very briefly, has Islamophobia multiplied in the last seven months, in your opinion?
12:45 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes, it has multiplied. Anything that's adding to the reservoir of hate causes the reservoir to rise. It doesn't matter what source it's coming from.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
I'm sorry, but because of the limited time, I will go to Mr. Nalir.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
I'm sorry. The time is up.
If there is anything to send in, I would encourage you to do that.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
For what could be the last five minutes, it's over to Mr. Fortin.
12:45 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
My question is for the student, Mr. Omer.
Currently, section 319 of the Criminal Code prohibits promoting hatred or fomenting anti‑Semitism. However, there is an exception to this prohibition. Section 319(3)(b) states that “no person shall be convicted of an offence … if, in good faith, the person expressed or attempted to establish by an argument an opinion on a religious subject or an opinion based on a belief in a religious text”. It is therefore forbidden to foment hatred or anti‑Semitism, but one can do so if, in good faith, one expresses an opinion on a religious subject.
A bill has recently been introduced to eliminate these exceptions, so that no one can, under any circumstances, foment hatred or anti‑Semitism. It doesn't matter if the person is basing their statements on a religious text. It should simply be forbidden.
I'd like you to tell me what you think, in about thirty seconds, Mr. Omer. Then, I'd like to put the same question to other witnesses.
12:45 p.m.
Student, As an Individual
In my opinion, it should be forbidden. No hate should be allowed. That's my short answer.
12:45 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you.
Actually, my question was more for student Hamza Omer, who has been added to the panel, but hasn't had a chance to answer any questions yet. That's okay, I'll let it go, since time is running out.
I'd like to hear Mr. Nalir's response to that same question.
Did you hear the question, Mr. Nalir?
It seems not, so I'll let it go.
So I'll turn to you, Mr. Islam. I apologize, but I only have a few seconds left to hear your opinion on the matter.
Section 319 of the Criminal Code prohibits the promotion of hatred or anti‑Semitism. There is an exception that says you can do so if you base it on a religious text. We propose abolishing this exception. What do you think?
12:45 p.m.
As an Individual
I'll have to take your word for section 319. I do not know what it is. However, if what you're describing is the case, you can certainly disagree about theology. I don't see how it should extend to hatred or a promotion of prejudice—and certainly never to violence.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Mr. Islam.
I'll come back to you, Mr. Nalir. I don't know if your microphone is working properly. Can you answer the question? Did you hear the question?
12:50 p.m.
General Manager, Toronto Islamic Centre and Community Services
Yes, I got the question.
As Dr. Islam mentioned, I'm not too sure what criticizing theology has to do with hate, but you've heard us testify about the rise of Islamophobia.
We've told you about our loss of life—Dr. Islam's family—Omar almost getting killed by a truck and the risk to us. We're not allowed to grieve. I'm not sure why member Gladu came with questions about protesting and things like that. We're telling you that people have almost been killed, and then you reply with that kind of stuff. That's odd to me.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
In summary, Mr. Nalir, you would be in favour of abolishing the religious exception provided for in section 319 of the Criminal Code, so that it would be illegal to promote hatred, regardless of whether or not a religious text is used as a basis.
Is that what you mean? Have I understood you correctly, yes or no?