Justice Committee on June 3rd, 2024

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Yes.

[Dareen Shilbayeh]

—or within other communities?

I'm not too sure. I'm sure they exist, but I'm not—

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

If you're aware of any, you can submit them to the committee if you find out after the meeting. That's not a problem.

Thank you very much.

We will now continue our first round, with five minutes for MP Van Popta followed by five minutes for MP Ali.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for being with us here today.

Dr. Islam, my first question is for you. First of all, I offer my sympathies to you and your family because I understand that you're related to the Afzaal family, who were the victims of a brutal attack in London three years ago.

I'm not going to use the person's name. The person who was ultimately convicted of this attack was charged and convicted of four separate charges of first-degree murder and one charge of attempted murder. In addition, the Superior Court of Ontario found that he had committed acts of terrorism. That didn't make any difference to the sentencing, but I want to know from you, in your opinion, whether it made a difference.

Does it make a difference to you, to your family, to the broader Muslim community and, I would say, to all Canadians that this person was found guilty of an act of terrorism?

[Ali Islam]

I'll speak about what it means to me.

It came as a very necessary and very healing type of decision. The day after that decision came down, I was driving my son to the gym, and on our drive there, we passed by two men wearing turbans who I assume were Sikh men. I thought to myself, “Boy, from what happened yesterday, you guys are safer today.” That was a big, important message of safety and security to any visible minority in Canada, and I think the decision was correct. It makes me feel safer that this is a possible deterrent to someone who might think in the future of using a vehicle as a weapon.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you for that, sir.

I'm going to turn to the youth representatives and Dareen particularly.

Your friend Maryam gave testimony, but she's not here at the moment. I have a quote from her that I found in a publication. I think it was from the CBC. I'll just read it, and then I'm going to ask you to comment on it. “We didn't just lose Yumnah and her beautiful family. We lost our sense of belonging. We lost our sense of community. We lost our sense of safety and our sense of self. We even lost our innocence.”

If Maryam were here, I would put the question to her or just have her expand on that. I'm going to put it to you instead, Dareen: What do you say about that?

[Dareen Shilbayeh]

I think that statement will mean something special to each person who hears it. I don't want to completely speak over how it may touch her, but to me it means that I don't feel as Canadian as everybody else. I don't feel safe when I walk the streets. I remember I was thinking about how a few years ago, after we tragically lost the Afzaal family, no one wanted to go on walks anymore. Everyone was scared to leave the house. In the past year, with the increase of Islamophobic incidents and anti-Palestinian racism, we have seen that increase significantly.

It's really heartbreaking to know that we are not supported and we are not protected. We have to use the buddy system. For the past few months, we've had to use the buddy system just walking from one building to the next on campus. It means that we consistently have to go out of our way to look out for ourselves, because we're not being looked out for by our representatives, by the people who are supposed to be speaking for us and protecting us.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Dareen, I'm going to continue with you. You were quoted on CTV a couple of years ago in response to federal party leaders making promises to condemn Islamophobia and making promises to fight it. You said, “I don't think they've addressed it in any sense. Act on what you say.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

You have 30 seconds.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Perhaps you could comment on that very quickly. What, in your opinion, has the federal government done? Have they kept this promise?

[Dareen Shilbayeh]

I'm going to try as briefly as I can to elaborate on that. It's the idea that the language and narrative that Hamza touched on—and Dr. Ali also touched on this quite a bit—are very shaky in condemning and standing against what we are seeing today. When you are passive about the Muslim lives lost, thousands of them across seas, you are passive about Muslim lives lost nationally. That's what teaches the populations.

What we are seeing is firm language being used by the government in firm policies, such as Bill 21. That shows where the government stands, because shaky words of empathy don't hold, but policy and firm action do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

For the benefit of members asking questions and our witnesses, I am going to hold to time from here on out because we need to conclude within 30 minutes and I need a minute at the end. When I interrupt you, and I probably will, please do not take offence. It's not personal; I have no choice.

We will now go to Mr. Shafqat Ali for five minutes, please.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here and for the powerful presentations, especially by Maryam.

Dr. Islam, I'm a father of three, and I was in London after the tragedy happened. My daughter goes to school. She's in grade 9, and she wears a hijab. Since that incident, I haven't let her walk home or walk to school. My wife picks her up from and drops her off at school.

That incident has had a lasting impact on every Muslim in Canada. I'd never felt that way before. My kids and family had never felt that way prior to this event. When you were talking about the incident and the feelings of your son and daughter, I could relate that to my family.

I want to ask how you feel about the court decision. I know you talked about it. You can see the government's response and our law enforcement and court's responses to that incident. Do you think we are working on improving how we tackle Islamophobia and anti-Semitism or not? What are your thoughts on that?

[Ali Islam]

Mr. Ali, there are several things that my wife and I are speaking about to people at the provincial level regarding Islamophobia in the court system. On a federal level, one measure I would like to see is the ability for a judge to include a vehicle as a weapon when they say there's a weapons ban. Currently, it doesn't apply to a vehicle if a vehicle is used in an index crime. It applies to guns, knives and explosives. The perpetrator of this crime specifically said he wanted to inspire people to use vehicles because guns are harder to come by in Canada than, say, the U.S.

The Criminal Code can be modernized to reflect the reality that people may use non-traditional weapons. It should be under the purview of a trial judge to include that in a weapons ban. That's one measure I would be pushing for.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

The recent report on Islamophobia by the Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights notes that according to several witnesses, “Canada now leads the G7 in terms of targeted killings of Muslims motivated by Islamophobia.” Given the 2017 Quebec City mosque attack, which killed six men during evening prayer and wounded several others, and the 2021 attack on the Afzaal family in London, could you tell us how awareness of these acts of violence has affected the level of fear among Muslims regarding their safety and security?

I will refer this question to Mr. Nalir, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

You have 30 seconds.

[Shaffni Nalir]

I'm so sorry. Is it possible to have the question repeated?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

I had 30 seconds. It's gone. Maybe you could send your answer in writing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

If you want to repeat the question, Mr. Ali, you have time. Perhaps the response can come in writing, unless he is able to respond to it quickly.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

A recent report on Islamophobia by the Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights notes that, according to several witnesses, “Canada now leads the G7 in terms of targeted killings of Muslims motivated by Islamophobia.” Given the 2017 Quebec City mosque attack, which killed six men during evening prayer and wounded several others, and the 2021 attack on the Afzaal family in London, could you tell us how awareness of these acts of violence has affected the level of fear Muslims have for their safety and security?

If you can, kindly submit that in writing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Submit that in writing, if possible.

Given the time, we will have five minutes for each of the four parties, beginning with Ms. Gladu, followed by MP Ehsassi, Monsieur Fortin and Mr. Garrison. That will conclude our day.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here today. For those of you who have experienced the loss of your loved ones, I want to add my personal condolences as well.

I was really struck by what Omar Babili talked about. He talked about the impact when his church was attacked. Local politicians really did nothing. It resonated with me, because we've had a hundred Christian churches in this country torched, and the Liberal government has said and done nothing. On the anti-Semitism study that we're just finishing up, we heard about the 500% increase in anti-Semitic hate events. Others felt as well that the federal government had not adequately acted.

I'm interested in hearing about Islamophobia, because since 2017, there's been a House of Commons study on Islamophobia, which brought forward 16 recommendations; the Senate report that was mentioned, which made 60 recommendations on what the government could do; and a national summit in Canada on Islamophobia. The government also put a special representative in place to combat Islamophobia.

With all of that, Omar, do you feel that the efforts of the federal government have decreased Islamophobia in Canada?

[Omar Babili]

I'm not quite sure since I don't know what the federal government is doing about Islamophobia. I would have to come back on that question.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

It's the same question for Mr. Nalir.

[Shaffni Nalir]

As you mentioned, things have been done, but they could be communicated better to people on the ground. That's what I would say.