Evidence of meeting #109 for Justice and Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was islamophobia.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Thank you very much.
We will now go for six minutes to member of Parliament Ehsassi, please.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Given that there wasn't consent for Mr. Morrice to ask a question, I will share my time with him.
Allow me to start off by thanking all of our witnesses. I found your testimony extremely helpful.
Now, if I can start off with Mr. Panju, first of all, thank you for leading the Canadian Muslim Lawyers Association. I've had the pleasure of receiving a few legal briefs, and the legal work was spot-on and very helpful. Thank you for that.
Now, in your testimony, you touched on the fact that since October 7 we've seen some discrimination in the workplace. This is something that many of us have read about in the papers as well. It truly is chilling that someone who is expressing concern about developments in the Middle East, or who is of the opinion that human rights are not being respected would be let go from their place of work. Given that it is a very significant issue, and it concerns me to no end, I was wondering if you could elaborate on that, please.
June 10th, 2024 / 12:55 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Muslim Lawyers Association
Thanks for that important question.
As I mentioned in my introduction, there are serious concerns among members of our community about their employment prospects. Without repeating too much of what I said earlier, there are legitimate concerns that if employees, students or candidates make comments about the conflict, they will face repercussions.
This matter was perhaps best exemplified recently by an instance of student protesters who issued a petition calling for change and expressing their position on the conflict. Numerous students from the Lincoln Alexander School of Law signed a letter of support for Palestine and all forms of Palestinian resistance. There was extensive backlash from the legal community that targeted the students who signed this letter, many of whom were racialized individuals, including visibly Muslim women. Students were doxxed on various social media platforms. There were various organizations and commentators who urged that they be named, expelled, deported and labelled as terror apologists. Many students received disturbing and threatening emails, phone calls and messages that included threats of violence and death, as well as graphic videos and images. This is abhorrent.
Following this extensive backlash I was talking about, the university engaged retired chief justice J. Michael MacDonald to thoroughly review this letter. The justice found that the letter was not anti-Semitic; nor was it anti-Semitic to “criticize the actions and policies of the Israeli government towards Palestinians” or “apply concepts from international law, like colonialism, genocide, and occupation, in discussions of and statements about the government of Israel.” That's a direct quote from the chief justice's report.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
These were individuals who were trying to get jobs at law firms, but they were blacklisted. I've also heard of instances where people who had jobs were let go because they expressed an opinion.
What do you know about that? I have very little time—probably 40 seconds.
12:55 p.m.
Chair, Canadian Muslim Lawyers Association
That's right. This has been happening on a widespread basis and was accentuated at the time of the conflict.
There's a need for proper discussion about what constitutes hate in our communities. If there are individuals expressing hateful comments and perspectives, there's a way to deal with those. Right now there's a lack of understanding and context about what words and actions really mean. All individuals are entitled to due process, fairness and civil rights. There's a need for the government to make this known to all employers, in order to make sure we live in a society that's reflective of the values we adhere to.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Thank you.
I will share the remainder of my time with Mr. Morrice.
12:55 p.m.
Emerita Distinguished Professor of Law, As an Individual
Am I allowed to add something?
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Wait a second, please. I stopped the time. You have one minute and 54 seconds, but I stopped it.
Professor Macfarlane, I'm sorry. Is there a problem?
12:55 p.m.
Emerita Distinguished Professor of Law, As an Individual
No, I just want to be able to say something.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
I'm afraid I am guided by the rules of the House. I cannot recognize a witness unless there's a question posed to the witness.
12:55 p.m.
Emerita Distinguished Professor of Law, As an Individual
Is that even when what I have to say is relevant to the question that was just asked?
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Witnesses are able to send us anything else in writing. I must continue, because we have a hard stop.
Thank you.
You have a minute and 54 seconds left. Please go ahead.
12:55 p.m.
Green
Mike Morrice Green Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Ali.
Fauzia, it's wonderful to have you here. It seems so fitting, given that the third annual “Snapshot of Hate” report came out from the Coalition of Muslim Women just last week. As you shared in your testimony, there have been 115 total cases of hate and discrimination through the anti-hate services reporting, and a drastic increase since October 7.
I wonder if you want to say more about recommendations for this committee as they consider what the federal government could be doing in terms of additional measures to address Islamophobia.
12:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Coalition of Muslim Women of KW
Thank you, MP Morrice. It's a pleasure to see you here as well.
To answer your question, CMW has released a number of recommendations at different times, for different levels of government.
One thing I think Mr. Panju was talking about earlier as well was an actual definition of hate—in our case, especially, an agreed-upon definition or description of Islamophobia, which is still missing. A lot of negative rhetoric comes towards Muslims and even allies who try to say “Islamophobia”. Some say that Islamophobia is nothing. It's something Muslims have invented—something like that. It's always pitted against freedom of speech and the idea that somehow, if we do anything to address Islamophobia, it's going to curtail that freedom of speech.
Having an agreed-upon definition of Islamophobia, gendered Islamophobia and other terms, where people agree and community is involved, would be a great starting point for the federal government.
1 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Thank you very much for that response. It's much appreciated.
Mr. Fortin, you have the floor for six minutes.
1 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I thank all the witnesses who are with us today.
I will get right to the heart of the matter.
Mr. Yousri, in your presentation, you said that you deplore the hate speech directed at the Muslim community in Canada. That clearly did not help relations among citizens in Canada. I understand your point of view. In your opinion, should hate speech be banned in Canada, or should it continue to have a place?
1 p.m.
Imam and Executive Director, Ummah Society
I understand that many sessions were held before about anti-Semitism, and I think that we're discussing now issues about Islamophobia. Definitely, all forms of hate should be addressed and should be banned, and we should all work together to combat all forms of hate against Muslims or other religions and cultures. This goes without saying.
Thank you.
1 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Mr. Yousri.
Hatred is currently controlled or stemmed by a provision of the Criminal Code, section 319, which prohibits the promotion of hatred and anti-Semitism, among other things. However, the code also contains an exception provision, according to which a person accused of promoting hatred would have a good defence if they indicated that they expressed an opinion on a religious subject or based their opinion on a religious text they believe in.
In your opinion, should this exception be removed from the Criminal Code or should it be kept, thereby allowing hatred to be promoted based on a religious text?
1 p.m.
Imam and Executive Director, Ummah Society
As I said in my first comment, we should work together, actively and through legislation, to combat all kinds of hate. Speaking about this particular law or amendment that you are proposing, I am not aware of its details. However, I would like to say that protecting the freedom of expression and the freedom of people of faith and all faith groups to practise their religion freely is a fundamental right, and we have seen so many attempts to take this freedom away through different proposals. Recently, there was one through the chaplaincy program, to remove people of Abrahamic faith from being chaplains in federal government prisons, as well as other types of legislation.
1 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Mr. Yousri. Since I only have two minutes left, I would like to hear from your fellow witnesses on the same issue.
Ms. Mazhar, in your opinion, should this exception be kept or should hate speech be prohibited, even if it is based on religious texts?
1:05 p.m.
Executive Director, Coalition of Muslim Women of KW
It's a difficult question to answer as a layperson, and I will probably go towards thinking of competing rights under the human rights legislation, where people have the right to practise their religion freely on one hand, and then people, or citizens, have also the right to live their lives free of harassment, free of any kind of hate and discrimination and things like that. It's really very difficult to say, at this point, for me, whether we keep it or we let it go. I can see the benefits—