Justice Committee on June 10th, 2024

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Elghawaby, I would like to come back to the discussion we were having earlier, when I said that you responded a little late after the events of October 7, some 10 days later. That was not a criticism, since you did respond. Earlier, you talked to us about Bill 21, which, in your opinion, is a bad piece of legislation, a bad decision. These two situations do not concern Canadian legislation.

I asked you a question about hatred, but perhaps I misspoke or you misunderstood me. I would like us to come back to this, as I would like to know your opinion on one thing. The Criminal Code currently prohibits the promotion of hatred, which I think is a good thing. On that point, Mr. Benabdallah told us that the hatred of the other led to events like those that occurred at the Quebec City mosque, and we are on the same wavelength in that regard. Mr. Khan told us that peace is the foundation of his religion, and I completely agree with him. I think it is in our interest to get to know each other better.

I feel that promoting hatred is a bad thing, regardless of religion or beliefs. As I was saying, it is currently prohibited to promote hatred. That said, there is something in the Criminal Code that I think is questionable. In fact, the code says that you can defend yourself in court against a charge of promoting hatred if you say that you relied on a religious text that you believe in and that you were trying to establish the merits of. That seems inconsistent to me, but it may not seem so to you. If you don't agree with me that we need to get rid of this exception, I'd like to know why. Why do you think that promotion of hatred and anti-Semitism should be allowed if they're based on a religious text?

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Madam Chair, on a point of order, I have a lot of respect for the member opposite, but his question has nothing to do with the topic of our study. Do you think there is a direct link between his question and our study?

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you for your point of order, Mr. Zuberi.

I've stopped the clock, Mr. Fortin. I think you had finished your question. Is that the case? Do you want an answer now or do you want to continue talking? I need to know that. If you had finished your question, you have 39 seconds left, and the point of order is moot.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I'm not sure I understand your question, Madam Chair. That said, I had finished asking my question and I was waiting for an answer from Ms. Elghawaby.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Okay.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

If you wish, I can respond to Mr. Zuberi, but—

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

I would prefer not to spend too much time on this point of order, as we are about to wrap up.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

In any event, we've been hearing testimony for a few days. I think the subject of hatred is at the heart of our debates. The witnesses are talking to us about it, and they are even talking to us about Quebec's secularism law. So it's hard for me to see how it can be said that I am straying from the subject at hand when I talk about hatred in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Okay.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Madam Chair, I withdraw my point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Colleagues, Mr. Fortin has 39 seconds left, and I would like to hear the witness's answer.

You can answer at any time, Ms. Elghawaby.

[Amira Elghawaby]

Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

Again, I think what's clear, and it's quite sad and unfortunate, is that Muslims are constantly asked to condemn hate. Of course, Muslims join fellow Canadians in condemning all forms of hate. The underlying premise of the question suggests that somehow Muslim communities or other religious minority communities are fomenting hate, and they are not—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Ms. Elghawaby, I have only a few seconds left. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I want to know what you think.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[Amira Elghawaby]

I think I can continue to finish—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Would you prefer not to answer?

[Amira Elghawaby]

I think I answered your question.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

You didn't answer; you just said you don't want Muslims to respond.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

We're out of time. So it is over.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you anyway, Ms. Elghawaby.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Mr. Garrison, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have to say, once again, that as a gay man who's often been “othered” in our society, and as a gay man who's married to a person of colour who's often presumed to be Muslim because of his nationality, I have some personal experience with what we just see going on here. Questions are asked of Muslims that are not asked of anyone else. It's part of what I think all our witnesses have said. There's somehow an extra test of loyalty or commitment to diversity that we demand of Muslims who appear before us. I'm disturbed by that.

I'm really not sure what to ask, at this point, but I want to go back to Mr. Khan's point about unity and diversity and reaching out. There are many victims of hate in this country and many victims of othering. I would like to ask him to talk a bit more about his experience in trying to join hands against the hatred.

[Asif Khan]

I'm sorry. Do you want me to just kind of elaborate on it?

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Yes—in terms of the success of joining hands against hatred among all communities.

[Asif Khan]

I do want to underscore, obviously, the need for this conversation. There is a growing issue of hate in the country against Muslims and others. The way to resolve it is through policy and by enacting certain words that we will say or the media will say, but this idea of unity and getting together and understanding each other's commonalities is the only way to simmer the issue. We can't keep going like this. This will just create further division, and other comments will come. People want to divide us. We are Canadians. All of us are Canadians. We're together in this, making this country better, regardless of what faith we belong to.

Again, focus on commonalities. Focus on what brings us together. That's part of the solution. There are obviously many other things that also need to be done.