Justice Committee on June 10th, 2024

[Amira Elghawaby]

Thank you very much for the question.

It's really important to understand that my role is a domestic role, so the guidance and advice I provide the federal government is on how policies impact Muslims here at home. As everyone can understand, after the shocking events of October 7, we needed time to review and see how it was going to impact our communities. Therefore, when—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

You're telling me that this conflict has had a significant impact on Jewish-Muslim relations in Canada. I am not an expert on this issue, but with all due respect, on the very day of the events, we could see that the situation would get worse, both in Canada and elsewhere in the world. Did you not think it was important to respond more quickly? Have you been pressured one way or the other?

[Amira Elghawaby]

It's so important, when we're dealing with issues that are going to cause great emotional distress to our communities, that we take our time. It is very important for elected officials in particular, as well as representatives, to ensure that their discourse is sensitive and takes into consideration the full impacts here domestically.

It is important to note that I was very clear in the statement to condemn all forms of violence against innocent civilians and to ensure that our communities were not going to face the types of civil liberties encroachments that we have seen previously, as well as efforts to suggest that somehow Muslims have to constantly condemn every time a terrorist group takes some kind of action. We've moved beyond that. Muslims are no longer going to accept being treated as second-class citizens who have to prove their loyalty.

Thank you.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Elghawaby.

You're telling me, and I thank you for this, that you think Muslim groups should also speak out against violent acts. If I have understood correctly, violence, terrorism or hate fomented against anyone in Canada, be they Jewish, Muslim, Catholic or other, is not acceptable. I'm with you on that.

The Criminal Code currently contains a provision, section 319, that prohibits the promotion of hatred. Paragraph 319(3)(b) states that there will be a reasonable defence if an opinion is based on a religious text. The same exception applies to anti-Semitism or hatred. In your opinion, should these exceptions be removed? If not, should there continue to be a reasonable defence if a person is accused of promoting hatred and doing so based on a religious text?

[Amira Elghawaby]

Earlier, I mentioned that it is the responsibility of members of Parliament to debate legislation and make decisions in the best interests of their constituents. I am a special representative on combatting Islamophobia, so my role is not to give opinions, but rather to communicate policies—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

However, you are here to help the Muslim community integrate into Canada. We're talking to you—

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair. We've already—

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Okay. In any case, the time is up.

We will complete the first round with Mr. Garrison for six minutes, and then our fourth witness will be coming online. I will ask for a brief moment after Mr. Garrison's time to ensure that our fourth witness has his five minutes, and then we'll continue with the second round.

Mr. Garrison, go ahead for six minutes, please.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you very much Madam Chair.

I have to start by saying I'm disturbed when, inadvertently or purposely, this committee ends up engaging in othering the Muslim community. I think we are seeing examples of that this morning, and I apologize to our witnesses. I thank them for being here today to give very important testimony.

I want to go back to Dr. Hasan.

I think you were just starting to talk about your work on the impact on Muslim women.

We live in a society that has quite often historically tried to police the dress of women and tried to blame women for things that happen to them because of dress choices they make. While I'm not trying to reduce the salience of what's happening with Muslim women now, I do think it's important to remember there's a long tradition of policing women and their dress in this country.

What do you see as different about this now from that traditional concern about the way women look and dress?

[Dr. Nadia Hasan]

I think now we've legalized our ability to discriminate against women who dress a certain way, and discriminate not in an insignificant way. These are their livelihoods we're talking about. These are their investments in their careers, which have just vanished because of a law that says they can't work in certain public sector jobs.

I think the impact of this has been felt far and wide by Muslim women in Quebec. My research shows that it has been so detrimental, not only to Muslim women's livelihoods but also to their mental health and their ability to feel like they belong or are safe and secure in Quebec. Muslim women report feeling like they're targeted and are in the crosshairs, kind of becoming political punching bags in Quebec. They're dreading what the Quebec government will do next to take away their rights. My studies have found that, as a result, over 73% of Muslim women in Quebec are considering leaving the province altogether.

This is not okay. This is not what we call social harmony. It completely flies in the face of the fact that the Quebec government is essentially trying to promote the bill as something that is enabling social harmony. It is not. The violence women are experiencing, the mental distress, the threats to their personal physical safety and security—this is at stake right now.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

I know that your research is focused on Quebec, but do you see this having impacts outside the province of Quebec?

[Dr. Nadia Hasan]

Absolutely. Especially as we're talking about the current moment that we're in, we're seeing that many Islamophobic attacks are actually directed at Muslim women who wear a hijab. These attacks range from Muslim women having their hijab ripped off to being physically assaulted—punched in the head, punched in the stomach—and Muslim women being spat on, a wildly common phenomenon since last fall.

It's actually quite atrocious what Muslim women in particular are facing. Islamophobia is gendered in very, very significant and important ways that I think would be wise for this committee to remember as you think about what your next steps will be.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

I'd like to ask Madam Elghawaby to weigh in on the same question.

In your work, how are you finding the question of gender affecting the ability to combat Islamophobia?

[Amira Elghawaby]

It's a very important question, absolutely.

As Dr. Hasan has noted, Muslim women who wear the head scarf, who are visible, are indeed targeted in various ways, whether it's discrimination on the job or whether it's discrimination from holding various types of employment. Right across Canada this is a phenomenon. We actually see the underemployment of Muslim women within Canadian employment areas. Even though they have a very high level of education, it's not matching up to the types of employment they're able to get.

What we have realized is that Canada is losing an incredible opportunity to benefit from the incredible professional attainment that these women can have. The contributions they can make in our society are huge. When we think about the ways in which this study could provide advice, it indeed would be to be very mindful of the fact that all sorts of stereotypes exist around Muslim women, particularly those who choose to wear the head covering, the hijab.

What I have heard from women across the country, including in Quebec, is that, again, this law 21 is not only impacting women in particular professions, i.e., in teaching and in the legal profession. It also has an impact that sets up right through society. The moment you have what has been termed, to this committee, “second-class citizenship”, where some people have fewer rights than others, immediately that gives licence or permission to those who may hold discriminatory views to treat these citizens differently from others.

This is an extremely problematic pathway that Canada is on. It harms not only our social cohesion but also our prosperity and our success.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you very much.

I think that's a really important perspective to have brought to these hearings. I thank both of you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you very much.

Give us a minute, please, to allow the introduction of our fourth witness.

I'm suspending for a minute.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

I call the meeting back to order.

From the Centre culturel islamique de Québec, we have Boufeldja Benabdallah, co-founder and spokesperson.

Mr. Benabdallah, I'll let you know when you have 30 seconds left. You now have the floor for five minutes.

[Boufeldja Benabdallah, Co-Founder and Spokesperson, Centre culturel islamique de Québec]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for inviting me to this very important panel.

Islamophobia, from the past to the present, and especially in Quebec City, has evolved and is still evolving. It is always the same story, the conflation between Islam and what is happening elsewhere. To get right to the heart of the matter, I would say that the vast majority of Quebeckers appreciate us being here.

However, whenever a serious international situation has occurred, part of society has constantly been asking us to explain why Muslims are like that and why Islam is like that. Even when I was a university student, we had to organize panels to explain certain situations. That gives the impression that we have to explain ourselves and redeem ourselves, as if we were partners in everything that happens outside the province or the country. But that is not true. We live in a country governed by the rule of law, a country that is free and a good place to live. We are not here to promote harmful situations for society.

I will get right to the point, as I know that five minutes is very little time for a comprehensive speech or presentation.

I co-founded the Centre culturel islamique de Québec in 2008. We needed a place of worship to pray, to educate our children, and to stay together, not to proselytize or to show that Islam is vindictive, on the contrary. Despite that, one segment of society—not the majority—started sending us hate messages, threatening messages, messages calling on the neighbourhood to ban the presence of this mosque, and saying that Muslims must leave and go home. These people even sprayed graffiti on our walls, swastikas. Imagine, we are being confused, once again, with the Jews. Since the Jews have suffered atrocities, we are also being threatened with atrocities if we do not leave. They even found a pig's head and feces at the door of the mosque. In addition, trash radio stations have been ranting about Muslims. Instead of talking about Muslims belonging and contributing to society, they are portraying us as agitators and people coming in with ideas from the outside. However, that is absolutely false. Those trash radio stations have not improved the situation with all these tracts and leaflets against Muslims. Then, as you know, some of our sisters, Muslim women, who wear hijabs and scarves—most of the women wear them—have been attacked in public places in inhumane ways. That has caused unfathomable disorder.

I am talking about that and bringing you back to the tragedy of the mosque, but it's a small step. All these insults and threats have never stopped. I received personal threats and the police had to install video cameras by my door to help me be less disturbed by these threatening people. Then the troubles continued inside the mosque. On January 29, 2017, we lost six parents, six fathers, who left six widows and 17 young children, and 45 people suffered psychological trauma, including one who is still in a wheelchair after being hit by six bullets, one of which is still in her neck.

You see, from the insults, from this active minority, from this hatred of the other, the Muslim, we have arrived at a tragedy that has not only disrupted the Muslim community, but also disrupted Quebec and Canadian society. Fortunately, our fellow citizens have comforted us. We will never forget that empathy. They have stood by us and supported us.

However, I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that, despite this positive majority, there is a vocal minority that speaks louder than everyone else. It is this minority that is hurting us. Now, when you take that leap to the development of legislation—

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Mr. Benabdallah, unfortunately I have to interrupt you. However, we will ask you questions and you will be able to continue by answering them. Thank you very much.

[Boufeldja Benabdallah]

That's fine, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

We will now begin our second round of questions.

I will ask MP Khanna to please begin his five minutes.

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Thank you so much for that.

I want to thank the witnesses here today for sharing their perspectives and their testimony.

I live in Woodstock, which is not too far from London. Obviously, our hearts go out to the victims of the terrorist attack that happened there a few years ago. We also heard the news over the weekend of the fire that was started at a Muslim family's home. Obviously, we condemn that. I think all parties are united against that. Hopefully, whoever is responsible is punished to the full extent of the law and held responsible.

My question is for Mr. Asif Khan. I've attended many of your community events, like the Jamat-ul-Vida. I've been to jalsas. I've been to your Canada Day celebrations in Maple. There's a growing community in my riding as well.

Your charity does great work. Humanity First steps up, especially during times of need. As we see two million Canadians going to food banks, it has stepped up and shared that message of love for all, hatred for none. I think that's a beautiful message, and that's a Canadian message.

You also hold interfaith forums and open houses to raise awareness.

In your testimony, you mentioned knowledge over ignorance. I think when we educate the community, we're able to tackle some of these misconceptions that exist of the Muslim faith.

Can you update the committee on some of the initiatives you have taken as a jama'at? What kinds of tangible benefits have you seen first-hand with the work you're doing in proactively engaging Canadians?

[Asif Khan]

During my testimony, I mentioned that the Muslim community needs to step up. If there's a misunderstanding of Islam, it's also our responsibility as Muslims to make others aware of what our faith is, and the faith is about peace.

Interfaith events are something we've been doing for several years. We've probably held hundreds of them across the country, even in places like Nunavut. The idea is to focus on your commonalities, not on your differences. One of the questions that was floating around earlier stabs at differences, and that's incorrect. Let's focus on what we have in common together.

Also, speaking to the earlier question about the hijab and so forth, integration isn't doing what certain people might feel is required. Integration is making sure that individuals like me and other members of other communities are improving and raising up Canada. That's integration. To focus on things like the hijab and whatnot is incorrect.

I think interfaith programs bring us all together. They create commonalities. They don't create division.

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Thank you for that.

Have you seen them make a positive impact in the community? Have you seen people coming together? What has the response been to them?

[Asif Khan]

Definitely. Obviously, everybody likes to talk about their good works, what their community does, the good things their communities believe in and the values they have. This makes everybody feel together.

Whenever we do these interfaith programs in different cities, I think they allow for everyone to realize that, you know what, we're all part of the same human family.