Evidence of meeting #12 for Justice and Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tobacco.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Randeep Sarai
Thank you, Mr. Garrison.
We're over to you, Mr. Morrison, for five minutes.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Morrison Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Thank you, Chair, and thank you to all of the witnesses here today.
Mr. Barnum, I have a couple of questions for you. It's interesting that you are here talking about illicit tobacco when I'm sure that a lot of people here think, “Who cares? How can this be a real problem?” A few years ago, when I was in law enforcement and working on a file that concerned illegal tobacco, I thought the same thing. I wondered how this could be a real problem, until I got into having to deal with gangs and organized crime, which is when you see where that whole event is going. I'm sure that what can happen with illicit and contraband tobacco is eye-opening for a lot of people listening to this.
Since you have been dealing with this a lot more recently than I have, I would be interested to know what you see happening now that we know that it's not just tobacco but all sorts of illicit drugs, whether it's crystal meth or cocaine. It doesn't even matter; it's just that it's part of major organized crime, gang activity, and the shootings that we've seen everywhere. Of course, I could get into the opioid crisis, which is a result of that.
What have you seen in your experience when this goes sideways, and what are the results, the victims? What's happening at the end of the day?
5:10 p.m.
D/Commr Rick Barnum
The contraband tobacco issue—this sounds kind of strange—is a unique issue, but it's not. What I mean by that is that the profitability for contraband tobacco for organized crime groups in Canada is absolutely huge, and contraband tobacco is a Canadian problem. Ninety per cent of the contraband tobacco that we seize in our country is from Ontario, in most cases. It's not something that's coming into our harbours and it's hidden or something of that nature.
The organized crime groups that are engaged are Canadian organized crime groups for the most part. They're selling contraband tobacco in Canadian communities. This money that they make goes to fuel all kinds of crime, as we're talking about today. I understand these conversations so very well. I've lived these conversations for the last 20 years of my career. I'm not here to comment from a policing perspective on these issues, but they are all intertwined now with contraband tobacco.
From the last 10 years, I do not recall a single person whom we arrested or charged on contraband tobacco at a significant level being engaged with any sort of race-based group or from any sort of specific racial community. Ninety percent of them were white organized crime figureheads. That's who we're dealing with here.
My message on the contraband tobacco issue would be to please not just swipe it away with the rest of what Bill C-5 hopes to accomplish, which, for the record, I'm not against. However, this issue is unique from the perspective that organized crime is targeting contraband tobacco, pairing it with cocaine and fentanyl and all of the issues that we're talking about today, and using it to make millions of dollars to use themselves.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Morrison Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
I wouldn't mind hearing a bit about the policing side of it, but we all.... That's one of the major problems that we're trying to deal with: organized crime and gang activity, especially gun violence and how that can tear apart a community. It doesn't matter who's involved here. You get shootings and young people, and it sounds as though if you give us some police experience—
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Randeep Sarai
The bells are ringing. Can I get unanimous consent to go until 5:30, and then there's enough time to physically go to the—no. I see a “no”, so unfortunately we will have to suspend here. We don't have unanimous consent to go to 5:30.
I want to thank the panel. I want to thank all of the witnesses for your important testimony today. It's an important study.
We'll resume on Friday.
Thank you. The meeting is adjourned.