Evidence of meeting #121 for Justice and Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was consent.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Personal attacks are not allowed under the Standing Orders.
I guess Mr. Brock is so embarrassed by Mr. Viersen that he's going to engage in personal attacks against me—
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
—even though I've conducted myself under the Standing Orders. He's the one who's repeating himself, delaying this and preventing Mr. Viersen, and ultimately this study, from proceeding.
Conservative
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
—seek clarification, because this is Mr. Bittle's game. This is what he does.
Despite other members of the Conservative team and I voicing concerns that every one of Mr. Bittle's points of order were in fact debate and not points of order, I have yet to hear any direction from you, Madam Chair, who are charged with the responsibility of determining the validity—or the lack thereof—of points of order.
If we continue at this pace, perhaps we're going to be here all next week with me continuing my intervention and listening to Mr. Bittle again trying to debate. He will have the opportunity at some point. I don't even know if his name is on the list. What he likes to do is distract, divide and confuse. That's his game, and that's petty politics.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
That brings me to the original point I was making about the Liberals' game with respect to this particular study. I'm asking you, Madam Chair—
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
—to please exercise rulings and determine whether points of order are legitimate or not legitimate.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Okay. We'll do so.
I have Mr. Maloney next. Then I have MP Drouin's hand up. I would just like to hear everybody first.
Liberal
Liberal
James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Look, I have the greatest of respect for Mr. Bittle. I also have a great deal of respect for Mr. Brock. It is completely unnecessary and totally inappropriate to be casting aspersions at another member and imputing motive. We're all professionals here.
What does come to mind is the old saying, the pot calling the kettle black, but I think that perhaps.... I know that Mr. Brock thinks that relevance is subjective, but if he's going to start asking the chair for rulings on every single intervention, he's going to be interrupted more frequently, not only by Mr. Bittle but by every other member in this committee.
The point is, look, I don't think Mr. Bittle is doing anything inappropriate. He is addressing issues of relevance. He's trying to keep his conduct professional, as he always does, and I think Mr. Brock's comments towards him are not only one hundred per cent wrong, they're completely inappropriate. I hope we can rise above that moving forward.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Thank you, Mr. Maloney.
My list has grown. It's all on the point of order, so that's great. I'd love to hear them all.
I will go with Mr. Drouin.
Then it's Mr. Jivani's turn.
Then we have Mr. Lawrence, and then I could have more.
Go ahead, please, Mr. Drouin.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Madam Chair, I listened attentively to Mr. Brock's argument. I'm just wondering if he could explain to this committee the rationale he was posing in terms of a member making a statement in the House and therefore they don't need to appear. I'm just wondering if that was the same logic for the member from Perth—Wellington, who spoke on Bill S-227 and sponsored Bill S-227 and was not afraid to appear before a committee.
I would ask him whether or not he's had a discussion with Mr. John Nater, who had the courage to appear before a parliamentary committee to testify on a bill that he was sponsoring himself. I would assume that Mr. Viersen would have the same courage.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Okay. Thank you for that.
I'm not familiar with Bill S-227, but point taken.
Next is MP Jivani, please.
Conservative
Jamil Jivani Conservative Durham, ON
Madam Chair, I think Mr. Brock's point is that the point of order is being abused and is being turned into something of an open mic night—
Conservative
Jamil Jivani Conservative Durham, ON
—where people can just chime in however they feel, Mr. Bittle in particular, abusing the virtual aspect of this, but when he's here in person, he slinks around and doesn't make a lot of noise. Now he's unmuting his mic whenever he feels like throwing in jibes and comments, and he's not being corrected. He's done this while Mr. Brock was speaking. You have not addressed him at all when he interrupts and just throws things. If we were doing that in here, you would say something. He's abusing the virtual format, and I think he needs to be corrected, Madam Chair.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Thank you for your comments.
I do recognize that members are now waiting to be acknowledged, whether it's virtually or in the room, so I appreciate that.
Thank you very much.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
They have all been acknowledging that.
We will go to Mr. Lawrence, and I do see that, virtually, Mr. Kurek, you'll be next. Then I see Madam Dhillon after you.
Mr. Lawrence, go ahead, please.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
As you rightfully pointed out, it is your responsibility to maintain order and decorum, and that looks increasingly difficult. You have my condolences with respect to that responsibility. You rightfully called me out earlier for talking too loud with Mr. Drouin. You were completely within your rights, and I apologize for causing any distraction.
I will say that there has been, as Mr. Jivani has said and as Mr. Brock has said, a pattern of Mr. Maloney and Mr. Bittle creating fake points of order that are equally, if not more, distracting than having a sidebar conversation with a colleague. I'm not going to tell you how to do your job. That would be presumptuous. However, I've certainly seen in other committees where there is a pattern, the chair will make sure that the individual starts with a rule that they're citing for that point of order. Before they are allowed to commence, they have to cite that rule. I think that it might be a fair practice.
Thank you very much.