Justice Committee on Dec. 5th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Madam Todd is.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Madam Todd, okay.

Madame Todd, I would like to hear from you why the argument that this is an unnecessary bureaucracy is unfounded.

[Carol Todd]

What do you mean by “unnecessary bureaucracy”?

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

We heard a lot about the regulator.

[Carol Todd]

I've been following what's been happening in Australia. I have actually met with the e-commission in Australia that does the regulatory administration. For all those who might not know, there was a question about what are the parts of a prospective e-commission.

The digital safety commission of Canada would be a body that would oversee the enforcement of the online harms act. A digital safety ombudsperson would support users and advocate for the public interest of online safety. There would also be duties for social media operators, and platforms would be required to implement measures to mitigate, protect children and make harmful content inaccessible.

It's a whole ball with different parts in the ball. That's sort of what's needed. It's not going to happen overnight, because in Australia it took years to come up with. We're doing this for long-term safety. We're not doing this for the short term. We want to do it right. Everything that we do takes time and care, really.

What I'm not happy about is that, as parents, we are being asked questions that we might not know about. We've come here to talk about is why Bill C-63 is important to enact. This is one of the last First World countries to enact something like this. That's why we need to have it done. We do need the regulatory board, and the e-commission is a regulatory board. That's what I have to say about that one.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you.

I know the question has been asked to someone else, but do you think that your daughter might still be alive today had Bill C-63 been law at the time?

[Carol Todd]

There are lots of moving parts with that, with the mental health aspect. However, remembering back in the days when the intimate images were posted on Facebook and through sites, I remember chasing down Facebook and trying to figure out where to report it, and I couldn't. There was no button back then. There was no email address. There was no phone number to contact.

As I saw my child realize this and disintegrate before my eyes, it was heartbreaking. We're 12 years past this, and there are still things that are happening that are harmful to children and families that need to be changed. Technology has advanced so much that it makes it more challenging and more difficult. If we were back 12 years ago, I'm sure that regulators could have fixed these problems, but with AI, with the advancement of artificial intelligence now—

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you for your testimony.

Our next speaker is Mr. Fortin, who has a minute and a half.

We will follow with one and a half minutes for Mr. MacGregor.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Given the time allocated to me, I will go quickly.

First of all, I want to thank you, Ms. Jordan-Smith and you too, Mr. McSorley, even though I did not ask you any questions. It does not mean your presence is unimportant. Your testimony was clear and I duly noted it.

Ms. Jordan-Smith, if I may, I would just like to ask you one last question.

We all hope the Online Harms Act, meaning Bill C‑63, will pass quickly. The bill proposes it and, in my opinion, there might be some adjustments to be made. However, I think we owe it to ourselves to be diligent. This will not solve all the problems, but it will criminalize certain behaviours and create entities for complaints and follow-up.

In your opinion, would it help if funds were dedicated to awareness campaigns—be they on television, the radio or social media—to target our young men and young women and help protect them against this?

I ask the question because they will be constantly facing these situations, no matter what laws we pass. In your opinion, could an awareness campaign in the media change anything for victims?

[Miranda Jordan-Smith]

I mean, certainly it could help, but C3P already did an awareness campaign around the bill. That has been shared and on TV throughout the summer. My feeling is that we're of the digital era, and adults actually don't necessarily use social media appropriately.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you.

Mr. MacGregor.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. McSorley, I'll turn to you again. With respect to encryption tools that are designed to protect online security and privacy, do you believe anything in Bill C-63 poses a risk to those?

If you do have concerns, do you have any ideas on what we as a committee should be looking at in terms of addressing those concerns?

[Tim McSorley]

I know that the question around encryption and private messaging is a live one in terms of how to approach it in this bill. Our concern is that once encryption is broken in private messaging, it can't be fixed. Once one actor is able to access encrypted information, it's possible that it will be able to be accessed for other reasons. Encryption really underlies so much of the security that we have online, from banking to even protecting the privacy of people of all ages.

In the bill right now, there's no explicit requirement that platforms have to protect encryption. We're concerned that the lack of any acknowledgement of that could lead to platforms interpreting the bill as allowing them to do so. We think further protections should be included in the bill.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you for that clarification.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you.

Thank you very much to the panellists who appeared here.

Thank you as well to those who appeared in the first panel for bearing with us. Sometimes it happens that we have to suspend abruptly like that, without knowing in advance, but your persistence in staying with us is very much appreciated.

On behalf of all the committee, we are very appreciative of your testimony. Our hearts are with you. Whether you encountered this 12 years ago or last year, it's still like yesterday.

For all the parents who are with us, thank you so much for sharing your personal stories and for continuing to share them so that we don't forget and we do move as quickly as we can, as legislators, with a bill like this. Thank you very much.

The last comment I'll make is that if there's anything you wish to say that you felt you did not have the appropriate time to say, we would welcome anything you would like to send to us in writing. I know that all of you have sent briefs already, so it's not necessary, but if there's anything you wish us to consider further, please send it to our committee through the clerk.

Thank you so much.

Is it the will of the committee that we adjourn?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you so much.

The meeting is adjourned.