Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I wish to speak in support of this amendment. I have to say that if it were a choice between maintaining the status quo or going where the Liberals and NDP want to go, which is to eliminate mandatory jail time for some pretty serious offences, including the very serious offence of using a firearm in the commission of an offence, I would prefer the status quo.
That is where I hope we arrive at, but looking at the submissions that were made by certain individuals who came before the committee, by the Liberals and the NDP, and hearing some of the comments made by my colleagues throughout the rather limited number of meetings that we have had, I'm not optimistic that we're going to go there.
Instead, it seems that, blinded by ideology, the Liberals and the NDP want to move full steam ahead and simply eliminate these mandatory jail times, despite some very compelling testimony from witnesses, witnesses who were victims of offences, including firearms offences, and from law enforcement.
So much testimony came before the committee calling on the members of this committee to put a pause on rolling back mandatory jail time for, specifically, firearms offences that I think it would be helpful to remind committee members of some of that testimony. There's a lot. It's tough to know, frankly, where to even begin.
For example, André Gélinas is a retired detective from the intelligence division of the Service de police de la Ville de Montréal. He said this in general about Bill C-5: “There will be no deterrence.” He said, “The message this sends to the police who confront these criminals”—the criminals he's speaking of are criminals who go out and commit offences with firearms—“will only fuel discouragement and disengagement from these police officers.”
Mr. Gélinas also said:
This does not bode well for our collective security. As a society, we are facing an abdication and a retreat that is certainly not a solution to the overrepresentation of the communities [supposedly] targeted by this bill.
He said, “People who live in neighbourhoods where gangs and organized groups are very active feel totally abandoned by Bill C‑5.” He also stated:
Just imagine how you would feel if you were the victim of an assault with a firearm.... I don't think you would feel any safer in your community knowing that this person would not be subject[ed] to...minimum...sanctions.
That was Mr. Gélinas, who has very extensive experience in law enforcement on the front lines, dealing with perpetrators who go out, who commit serious crimes with firearms, who undermine public safety and who terrorize communities and leave victims in their wake. He certainly said, as a starting point, don't go where you want to go, where the Liberals and NDP want to go. I agree with him.
Anie Samson is a municipal elected official and represents an ethnically and culturally diverse area in Montreal that has been hit hard by firearms crimes perpetrated by criminals who use illegal firearms. She said before our committee that, “[These] weapons have destroyed families, friendships and lives.” She also said, “The message being sent at present is that because certain mandatory minimum sentences have been abolished, a criminal can commit a crime and get a reduced sentence, while the victim may be traumatized for the rest of their life.”
Stéphane Wall, another retired police officer, again from the city of Montreal, said—again, generally about Bill C-5 as it pertains to firearms offences—that Bill C-5 would “trivialize” the possession of arms for further use in criminal activities. It would give the “wrong message” to these criminals. She said, she didn't think this would coincide with the reality as we find it in the streets.
Members of street gangs already feel completely immune prepassage. They are going to be supported in a number of crimes. They are already laughing at the justice system. They just mock it
Then there is Sergeant Michael Rowe, who came before the committee representing the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police. I saw the Minister of Public Safety earlier today, or perhaps it was yesterday, citing the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police in answer to a question in question period. Sergeant Rowe said:
For police officers, victims of crime, members of the public and even the offenders themselves, the circumstances that result in a criminal charge for most firearms offences often result in a real threat to public safety, exposure to stress and trauma that has a lasting impact on mental health and the erosion of public safety.
In that regard he spoke and raised serious concerns about mandatory jail sentences being rolled back by Bill C-5.
As Mr. Brock noted, when we're talking about individuals who are charged under this particular section, we're not talking about folks who are going to walk away with a conditional sentence. We're talking about folks who are going to be spending some time behind bars in most cases.
Having regard for the evidence that came before our committee about the prevalence of illegal firearms and the fact that crimes are being committed by people who are often involved in gangs and organized crime.... Having regard for the fact that these witnesses told us that, as it currently stands, there is a need to provide for denunciation, and having regard for the impact that these types of offences have on victims and on the collective sense of security in communities, particularly communities that have a wide array of social issues, this is not where I'd like to go, but again, it is a matter of saying there should be at least some maintenance, some assurance that if someone goes out and commits the crime using a firearm in the commission of an offence, there ought to be, at the very least, a mandatory jail time, at least some preservation of that, and that's what this amendment does.
On that basis, given where this committee appears to be going, I think it's.... I hate to use the word “compromise”, but that's essentially what it is, to maintain at least some level of accountability in place.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.