Justice Committee on June 17th, 2022

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

I'd like to ask a more difficult question, Ms. Illingworth, as the former federal ombudsman for victims of crime. The resources available at the office, we all know, are inadequate, but could you give us an idea of the kinds of demands the office was not able to meet because of those resource limitations?

[Heidi Illingworth]

I just think that you're really limited in the number of systemic investigations that you can undertake, or emerging issues that you can look at, because the full-time employees count is so low, as Ben mentioned. You can only undertake so many projects—essentially, one large report a year, perhaps. There's a limit on translation. There's a limit on communication. Yes, you really have to decide as the ombudsperson what issue you want to focus on based on the complaints that you get or the issues that are brought forward.

It's unlike the correctional investigator's office. Have you seen any of their reports? They're huge. They focus on many systemic issues. The ombudman's office for victims of crime is much more limited in the work that can be produced as a result.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

My last question is for anyone or all three of you. Is there a recognition in our mental health system of the need for services to victims who've gone through these traumatic processes?

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Answer very briefly.

[Aline Vlasceanu]

I think there is some sort of recognition most times, but I think there are just not enough resources to go around. Even when victims are trying to apply for compensation, which includes accessing mental health supports, the long wait-lists and things like that just act as another barrier for victims. Also, there is a limited number of sessions they have available to them. For example, in Ontario, it's about $1,000, which is less than 10 sessions per person.

[Heidi Illingworth]

Yes, it's very time limited.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you, Mr. Garrison.

Next we go over to Mr. Richards for five minutes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you.

I feel a little bit like I've come full circle. Back when this legislation was put in place, I sat on the public safety committee and we reviewed the bill as it was being put into legislation. I remember at that time many people who came before the committee telling us that one of the big challenges was the lack of information that victims had. There was a belief that this bill would help to address that.

It appears as though, for whatever the reasons, that hasn't been the case, or at least not to a large enough degree. I want to touch on that in a second.

First, it's come up a few times, both in questioning and in your opening remarks, about the position of the commissioner being left vacant. I really see that as a slap in the face to victims. I want to just ask if all three of you could talk about the impact on victims of that position being left vacant.

Perhaps you could do that as concisely as possible. Anyone can go first.

[Aline Vlasceanu]

Sure. I can go first.

The fact that I have to tell victims that the position is vacant, when they think there is someone there, is really gruelling for me and my team. A lot of the time, when victims are frustrated, we really feel that because we're working with them on the front line.

A lot of victims feel that it underlines the fact that victims don't necessarily have a voice within the system in Canada. I think a lot of the time, while they're traumatized, it's revictimizing to know that there is a position that's been created but not enough investment to have someone in that position.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Does anyone have anything they want to add to that?

[Dr. Benjamin Roebuck]

Yes. I think right now we're in one of the most complex transformations to criminal justice that we've seen in history. During the COVID-19 pandemic, the transition to virtual service delivery changed so much, which means so many gaps have been created and so many people whose cases had added complexities still need resolution.

Having the absence during the COVID-19 pandemic, with all of those adaptations that are still ongoing, means that a lot of people are left without help and recourse and need somebody who's looking into those issues, for sure.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

What you're essentially saying is that you couldn't imagine a worse time to be leaving the position vacant.

[Dr. Benjamin Roebuck]

That's right.

[Heidi Illingworth]

Yes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Can we turn to what I alluded to at the beginning? This is the fact that victims don't receive the information they need to be able to properly participate in the process, to make sure that their stories are part of the justice system and that they're being treated with respect and in the appropriate way, and to ensure that their impacts are considered as fully as they need to be in the system. You've all mentioned you feel that it's preventing victims from that proper participation in the process.

What is it that's actually missing? Why are victims not able to get the information they need, and what can we do to fix it?

[Heidi Illingworth]

I'll start quickly, Ben, before you go.

I want to say really quickly that I think a huge gap is around the police provision of information about rights. We know this bill applies to the criminal justice system, so you have to report the crime to be able to access the rights and participate throughout the justice system.

The first step for me, which is critically important, is that all police be required to provide a victims' rights information card to victims. I made that recommendation as ombudsperson. I understand that the RCMP is moving forward with that—it would be amazing if it actually happens—but all police services in Canada should be providing a little handout that tells people they have a right to information to access restorative justice and protection, etc., which are the rights outlined in the bill.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I may want to come back to that to ask a follow-up question, but Mr. Roebuck mentioned that he had some stuff to add to this. I'll let you go first, and hopefully there will be time for me to come back for a follow-up on that statement you just made.

[Dr. Benjamin Roebuck]

I'll keep it really brief. We have a big gap in the transition from provincial to federal victims' services, where cases tend not to get passed along. If somebody doesn't register as a victim in the federal portal, they won't be informed of the parole hearing and their ability to provide an impact statement. There's a massive gap that happens at that level.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I'll follow up on that first. What do we need to do to make sure that people are aware that they need to do that? What would be the step that could be taken to make sure that people are aware of that need?

[Dr. Benjamin Roebuck]

There's a pilot project in B.C. to help merge some of the data in the provincial system with the federal system. The problem right now is that we need to shift beyond thinking that it's a privacy violation to proactively connect with people who've been impacted by federal offences. That's the barrier right now, from my perspective.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Thank you, Mr. Richards.

Thank you, Mr. Roebuck.

Next I will go to Mr. Naqvi for five minutes.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Dr. Roebuck, I'll go back to you again. I'll start with you, because you talked about data and that caught my attention.

Victims' services is a shared responsibility between federal and provincial governments. Tell us a bit about your experience in terms of how that shared responsibility is navigated, especially in terms of data. What is the state of data across the country among various jurisdictions?

[Dr. Benjamin Roebuck]

I think, often, minoritized or racialized populations are served by more informal mechanisms of support than the traditional systems. One of my big questions at the federal level would be about race-based data for people who are registered in the victims' services portal. Are we reaching the wide range of people who have been affected by federal crimes or federally sentenced offenders, or is there a bias in who's accessing support?

That's a big question. I think the ombudsman can help, but we need, at the federal victims' services level, a data strategy that really explores who's getting access to these services and who is excluded so that we can identify some of these gaps.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Do you have a sense, through your research, what those gaps are at this moment?