Justice Committee on March 29th, 2022

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

So, would you have done the breakdown by program, since you listed a number of them?

[Katherine Cole]

The $38 million mentioned was used to improve services to victims. In terms of other components, since 2015, provinces and territories have received $13 million for Bill of Rights implementation, $23 million for Family Information Liaison Units, and $32.5 million over five years for legal advice.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Will you be able to send me the figures broken down by program and province?

[Katherine Cole]

Yes, I will send them to you.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you very much.

To address this whole issue, I would like to speak to Ms. Bouchard from the Department of Justice again.

Ms. Bouchard, in your thinking about the program and the legislation, have you examined the possibility of considering the families of those convicted as indirect victims of crime?

There is general agreement that children of 10 or 12 years of age whose fathers have been convicted of murder, for example, suffer significant consequences, particularly at school. One only has to think of the stress and psychological impact on these families.

Has this ever been considered in the various programs set up under the law?

[Stéphanie Bouchard]

The definition of “victim” is found in section 2 of the Canadian Victims Bill of Rights and in the Criminal Code. I'll give you the one from the Bill of Rights. A victim is “an individual who has suffered physical or emotional harm, property damage or economic loss as the result of the commission or alleged commission of an offence.”

Under the Canadian Victims Bill of Rights and the Criminal Code, children who have not been abused by their parents are not considered victims of crime simply because their parents are incarcerated.

My colleagues from the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness could tell you about the tools and measures in place to help the families of those who are incarcerated.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Bouchard.

I am well aware that under the Victims Bill of Rights, indirect victims are not considered victims of crime. Rather, my question is whether you have ever considered including indirect victims in the definition of “victim”.

[Stéphanie Bouchard]

You had also raised this issue last June.

We will look at it according to the recommendations and the information that will be given to us, as explained by my colleague Mr. Taylor earlier. At the moment, indirect victims are not included in the current definition.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Is there anyone else, among the witnesses present, who could speak to this issue?

From the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, for instance—

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Unfortunately, Mr. Fortin, the time is up.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

All right.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

I'm sure you'll have another round.

Mr. Garrison, you have six minutes.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all the witnesses for being with us today.

I want to start by asking a question about who currently avails themselves of the services of the office for victims.

I understand from previous testimony that we've heard here in this committee, in the last Parliament, and also from experience in my own riding, that it tends to be white, middle-class, people who get served. It seems that marginalized people, indigenous people and people who live in poverty, not by intention, but by the structural challenges they face, often don't find out that these services are available, or they're hesitant to access the services because of previous experience with policing and other parts of the system.

Has there been any work done on who is actually accessing the existing programs and how can we do a better job of reaching the more marginalized ones?

Maybe that goes to Public Safety, which is where the office is lodged.

[Chad Westmacott]

All right. I'll start.

There's a difference between the national office for victims and those victims who avail themselves of the services of the Parole Board and the CSC in terms of being able to obtain information about specific offenders or specific court cases.

I'll start us first on the national office for victims.

Over a number of years, as I mentioned, there have been 80,000 publications given out in hard copy as well as significant access to the website. The website provides information on the rights that the victims have under the CVBR as well as a variety of information about the correctional system including, most recently, some fact sheets about how sentences are determined. That provides victims with information about how they can access the services available to them and how they can better understand the correctional system.

There are a number of registered victims, as I mentioned in my speech, with over 8,700 registered victims who can access the services of the CSC and the PBC in terms of information. I can also turn to either my colleagues, Kristan or Ian, to see if they have additional information to add.

Perhaps we can start with Kristan.

[Kirstan Gagnon]

I would add that we collect this data around different ethnocultural groups and indigenous groups, as well, and it is predominantly white. However, there are some across other ethnocultural groups, as well.

Something that we've made a focus of in our national outreach strategy is targeting indigenous, Black and racialized groups, because they can be affected by crime at a higher rate and we want to make sure that we reach them through a variety of means, intermediaries and organizations. We do a lot on social media. We are reaching out through the Crown prosecutors. We're using the tools at our disposal to be able to reach those individuals and make them aware of our services so that they can register.

It's also one of the initiatives in CSC's anti-racism framework and action plan priorities.

I'll let you add to that, Ian.

[Ian Broom]

I would add that for the Parole Board, as well, the focus is on outreach to those groups to ensure that folks are aware of the information services and the opportunity to participate from the Parole Board perspective.

We have a working group on diversity and systemic racism, and this is part of the considerations that this group has under way. In addition, the chairperson has a chairperson's indigenous circle. The topic of how to most effectively undertake engagement and opportunities to improve outreach has been discussed with that group, as well.

We're always striving to ensure that we enhance the outreach to reach those marginalized populations.

[Chad Westmacott]

If I may add one more item, in the documentation that I was referring to from the national office for victims, I wanted to flag that some of our publications are available in 20 languages, including seven indigenous languages.

Thank you.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

That's great.

I'm very happy to hear there's some active outreach and awareness of the problem of outreach. However, I also think that those who live in poverty, no matter their background, are disproportionately victims of crime, and they're also the people who are the least likely to have access on a regular basis to the Internet or information that's online. I hope that when you're doing these things, there's some attention paid to that.

I'm not sure how much time I have, Mr. Chair, but I want to start on the question of language rights. In our criminal justice system, we guarantee the language rights of the accused, but we don't do anything that I can see in victims' rights to guarantee that victims have access to supports when either court or parole proceedings take place in a language that's not their first language.

Is there some attention being given to the language rights of those who are victims of crime, since we do a pretty good job on the other side?

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Answer very briefly, please.

[Kirstan Gagnon]

I can add that we also distribute hard copies, and that plain language is also really important for reaching victims—especially people who are traumatized—to be able to make clear what's available and how to access it, and then provide the choices and options.

Ian, I see you have something to add as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Randeep Sarai]

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to cut you off there. I hope we'll get back to you.

I want to remind everyone—I think there was talk before about submitting something when Mr. Fortin was speaking—that any information you have to send, please send it to the clerk. The clerk will then distribute it to everyone.

Next we have Mr. Cooper for five minutes.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

I will address my questions to whomever is in the best position to respond, from either Correctional Service of Canada, the Parole Board or Public Safety.

I think it was the official from Public Safety who stated a few moments ago that there were some 8,700 victims registered to receive information, but as of 2018-19, there were some 23,000 offenders under federal responsibility. I presume that number has not changed significantly, so there's quite a considerable gap between the number of persons who are incarcerated and the number of victims who have registered for information. As the former federal ombudsman for victims of crime, Heidi Illingworth, emphasized, that is a foundational right. Without it, victims cannot effectively assert other rights.

Could any of the officials speak to that gap between the relatively small number of victims who have registered, relative to the number of persons incarcerated in federal custody?

[Chad Westmacott]

I will start off and then potentially turn to my colleagues.

I would point out that the registration by CSC and PBC to receive information ensures that information is provided to individuals who meet the legislated definition of a victim. Only those victims who desire continued contact following convictions are notified. This is a trauma-informed response, which respects the choice of victims who wish no further involvement with the criminal justice and corrections system regarding the offender. Not every victim wants to receive the information that is available to them through the CVBR.

My colleagues from PBC or CSC would perhaps like to add something.

[Kirstan Gagnon]

I can reiterate that it's definitely not a one-size-fits-all approach. We try to customize the information that we provide based on the interests of these victims. Some victims don't want to register to receive information, and that's their choice. If they change their minds at any time in the process, of course, they are able to register and provide victim statements, etc., and participate in the process.

Also, through active outreach, we'll be able to reach more people to make them aware and to remind them that we're there to provide these services. That's what we're mandated to do under the law as well.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you for that.

Now, in the January 2021 report from the federal ombudsman for victims of crime, entitled “Information as a Gateway Right”, the ombudsman found that the requirement of registration itself is problematic. Victims who perhaps would like to receive information but aren't familiar with the process and don't know how to self-register are left out. It is her recommendation that rather than providing for self-registration, victims should be automatically registered, with an opt-out provision.

Have you given some thought to the recommendation of the former ombudsman?