Evidence of meeting #93 for Justice and Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Welcome back in public. Thank you very much. The sound tests have been done.
Mr. Garrison, I see your hand up.
9:35 a.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
At this point, I'd like to move the motion that I gave notice of on June 21, 2023. That motion states:
That, given the rising tide of hate and violence directed toward the 2SLGBTQI+ community at home and around the world, the House call on leaders at all levels of government in Canada to:
a. speak out strongly in favour of Canadian values of equality and inclusion for the 2SLGBTQI+ community;
b. deplore all disruptions of lawful public activities including Pride events and all children’s sport and educational activities; and
c. condemn all attempts to disrupt democratic institutions including school boards when dealing with policies concerning equality and inclusion.
I'd like to move the motion and ask that the motion be adopted by this committee and reported back to the House at the earliest possible moment.
With your permission, I'll say a few words about the motion.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Thank you. The motion is so moved.
Go ahead. Please speak to it.
9:35 a.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
What we've seen is a growing tide of hate and violence. A lot of it is motivated initially online, but it spills over into the real world and has real impacts on people's lives and their ability to both feel safe and participate fully in Canadian society.
This motion does not call for specific actions by Parliament. Rather, it's a motion to urge all of us to speak in favour of equality and inclusion when it comes to my community.
We've seen events ranging from the disruption of school board meetings to the disruption of children's sporting days by those who have some preconceived idea of what children of a certain gender should look like to actual hate attacks in my own community, where pride flags were torn down from a house, thrown up against the house and set on fire. We're seeing an explosion of these kinds of things. Again, I think much of it starts online, but it has real impacts in our communities and on feelings of safety, which my community doesn't share with everybody else. They're not feeling able to participate in the community at the same level as other people.
I could spend a lot of time talking about it. I don't think the actions I'm asking for are particularly controversial. Given the actions of some of the provinces, including Saskatchewan, New Brunswick and Alberta, I think it's time for all of us to say that public policy should be based on science and reality and not be based on misinformation and hatred. Just this week, we saw examples of the Premier of Alberta basing a policy about kids who need access to gender-affirming health care on myth and legend, I would say, rather than on reality and on the advice of medical professionals.
This is an attempt to have all of us speak for calm when it comes to these issues and for basing our decisions on science and good public policy, reassuring everyone in Canada that we are a diverse and inclusive society where everyone can participate equally.
Thank you.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I just want to say thank you to Mr. Garrison for first tabling the motion and now moving it.
It's an important and necessary discussion to have, especially in light of some events that are going on around the country. It's important that all politicians—I was going to say “the government”—stand up, frankly, and very loudly vocalize their support for what you're saying today. I just want to say that I fully support it. I appreciate it.
I look back on some of the things the government has done over the last number of years—including Parliament. We had unanimity for the ban on conversion therapy, and that's something we should all stand proud of and celebrate.
I will be supporting your motion. I'm very grateful that you tabled it today.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
When I saw that Mr. Garrison had tabled this motion, I looked at it and considered it, but I'm unable to support the motion as it's currently worded.
Some time ago, I looked at how it could be amended so that I would be able to support it. Certainly, I condemn all acts of hate, violence and hate speech, and I understand what Mr. Garrison is getting at. I also know that some of the wording here could unfairly target parents, for example, who simply want to speak up, as it mentions here, at school boards. One person's attempt to disrupt is another person's attempt to participate, and I cannot support that.
I can read in what I would amend:
a. Speak out strongly in favour of Canadian values of equality and inclusion of all Canadians;
b. Reiterate the right of all Canadians to assemble peacefully—including for Pride events, sports events, educational activities, religious activities in places of worship, etc.; and
c. Reaffirm that democratic institutions including school boards are free to debate matters openly and freely, including matters of equality and inclusion.
This amendment gets to what we're trying to say with Mr. Garrison's motion without limiting the ability of Canadians to participate fully in discussions on these important matters.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
To be clear, is this on Mr. Moore's amendment? Did he propose an amendment?
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
It seems to be in two languages, yes.
The clerk and the Table are checking first to ensure the amendment is in order before we can talk about it.
We can proceed now. Do I have a list of speakers?
I have Mr. Garrison on a point of order.
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Madam Chair, I would ask you to rule that this is not an amendment. This is a substitute motion or a different motion. It makes no reference to the 2SLGBTQI+ community, which is the topic of my motion. This is a different motion.
I might in fact be able to support such a motion, but it does not deal with the topic of my motion. I don't understand how the amendment could be considered in order since it makes no reference to the main subject of my motion.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB
Madam Chair, I understood Mr. Garrison was looking for a ruling. Do you want us to give input into your ruling?
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
I want a bit of an explanation from Mr. Garrison and then from you on what you brought over before I make my ruling.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB
I understand what Mr. Garrison is saying. Perhaps the wording could be tweaked a bit.
This says, “That, given the rising tide of hate and violence directed toward” minority communities. If it makes Mr. Garrison happy, we could say, “That, given the rising tide of hate and violence directed towards minority communities, including the 2SLGBTQI+ community at home and around the world, the House call on leaders at all levels of the government in Canada to”.
Where we disagree.... Hopefully the wording that I have included is inclusive enough, but I would not want anything coming from this committee that would suggest.... For example, Mr. Garrison's motion says, “condemn all attempts to disrupt democratic institutions including school boards”. I've seen situations where parents wished to participate in school board meetings and the very action of showing up is seen as disruptive. It's like, how dare you come and speak out about something that impacts the school your children attend.
I cannot accept Mr. Garrison's motion as worded, which is why I put forward what I consider to be a friendly amendment. I see where he's coming from on it, so perhaps a friendly subamendment to tweak the intro, as I mentioned, would be acceptable.
9:50 a.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I'm going to restate my position. This is a motion about the rising tide of hatred towards a particular community, not towards all minority communities, because I don't think there is a rising tide of hatred towards all minority communities in Canada. In essence, it is a different motion.
To Mr. Moore's comments about school boards, I am not talking about someone showing up at school board proceedings. I don't think he can provide any examples where people, simply by showing up, were excluded.
What happened was school board proceedings were disrupted and shouted down by people who did not agree with decisions or debates that the school boards were having. We have several instances and I can cite them.
I think this is quite a different motion. I would ask the chair to rule it out of order. If Mr. Moore would like to move this motion after we've dealt with my motion, I might consider supporting it, but it's a different motion.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I just wanted to weigh in, in support of what Mr. Garrison said.
Look, this is as if I put forward a motion on anti-Semitism and I referred to Jews, then somebody pulled the word “Jews” out of the motion so that it was no longer about Jews and the flagrant anti-Semitism we're now facing, but a general portrayal of everything. I do agree that the motion by itself may be perfectly fine, but it's not the motion Mr. Garrison intended. It's a wholesale amendment to the core subject of the motion.
I think it is unreceivable, Madam Chair. First of all, in order for it to be receivable, there would have to be an actual amendment here. This isn't an actual amendment. It's an entirely new motion. You would have to say, “We propose to strike all the words after the word ‘to’ and substitute a, b and c by the following”. That would be the way an amendment is drafted.
This isn't even drafted as an amendment. It's just drafted as a new motion.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Okay, I'm going to suspend for a minute or two.
I'm going to ask you to speak to each other and come back to the table. If need be, I'm going to ask for a vote.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
We're back to order.
I see that all members are ready to proceed. Members have asked for a decision. Having looked at the new motion presented, I'm going to rule it out of order because it's an entirely new motion. We have two motions in front of us. We can deal with the second one at a later time. I don't have an issue with that, but right now we need to go back to the main motion.
10 a.m.
Conservative
Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB
Madam Chair, I'm sorry, but I'd like to understand why you would suggest that. This is something we do every day at this committee. Wording is presented to us in motions, in legislation and in reports, and we look at it, consider it and look at how we can improve upon it and whether there are concerns with it.
I specifically raised that we need to, as a committee, reaffirm that democratic institutions, including school boards, are free to debate—
