Evidence of meeting #95 for Justice and Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was control.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
I see.
In your opinion, would it have been wise to define what is considered repeated or continuous conduct? Is there a reason why you didn't define it?
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
This has been defined differently in different jurisdictions. We chose to use the language from the U.K. model, in part because we had some time to look at how it's impacted communities and were able to use some lessons learned from that. I think ensuring that we're looking at patterns of behaviour is vital.
If the committee sees that there is other specific language—for example, if Scotland took a different approach and outlined a more comprehensive list of examples of intimate partner violence—that is an approach you could take. I would argue that we have a good model. We have some of the lessons learned here and it is vital that we move this forward.
Bloc
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Thank you very much, Mr. Fortin.
I gave you about a minute more.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Of course, I want to express my personal thanks to the member from Victoria. We represent different communities within greater Victoria, and we've worked very closely together on issues of women and the law. As everyone in the committee knows, I took this as far as I could in the last Parliament, and I'm very pleased to see that Laurel has bene able to take it forward in this Parliament.
My question is about the fact that we've had this topic before Parliament for three years now, and we're in the second year of a minority Parliament. I'd just ask you to talk about something that I know we're both concerned about, which is the progress of this bill before there's an election.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Thank you for your tireless work on this, for bringing this forward initially, for making sure the committee studied it in advance years ago and for allowing me to work with you on it. It's been an absolute honour.
I am very worried that we will go to an election before this passes, and I am going to well up with tears because I know the impact. I spoke to someone last month whose daughter was killed, and he said that if this bill had been in place when his daughter was alive, she would still be alive.
It is so vital that we pass this piece of legislation. I urge committee members to be aware of the uncertainty in minority parliaments. Please do everything you can to get this through committee and back to the House so we can send it to the Senate and it has the best chance of passing.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Thank you, Laurel.
I too share that concern. Things should move expeditiously, especially for a bill for which there is unanimous support from all parties.
One thing I was asked—and I know you've been asked, and Monsieur Fortin asked about it—is what the change really is in the Criminal Code. One thing that you and I have both heard from people is that the Criminal Code has provisions that deal with pieces of this, but the Criminal Code is incident-based and lacks the ability to grapple with a pattern.
I would like you to say some more about how you think inserting a reference to a pattern of behaviour will improve the response.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
It's something we've heard from frontline organizations, but I would say that's the most compelling piece I've heard from survivors of intimate partner violence. This is how domestic abuse is experienced.
While there is benefit to responding to an incident of physical violence, which is essential in our criminal justice system, it is not adequate for dealing with what people are experiencing when it comes to intimate partner violence. I think because this is often a precursor to physical violence and is also the most common precursor to femicide, even in situations where no physical violence has occurred, we have an obligation to change our Criminal Code to better serve these victims.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
I know you've already said to us that, of course, it's a private member's bill so you can't oblige the government to spend money, but what we're doing here is creating a new tool. I think both you and I in meetings with all of those survivors have heard them say they need this tool but need a bunch of other things surrounding it.
Even though you can't put them in your bill, could you talk a bit more about the associated services that we need in order to serve survivors?
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
This is absolutely vital, and it's something we've heard again and again. We need support for victims who are going through the criminal justice system. We need funding for frontline organizations that are providing housing supports. We need so much more to support the people who are experiencing intimate partner violence.
I am extremely disappointed that this government cut funding to women's shelters at a time when we know women are in desperate need of that support and that kind of safe haven.
We also need to be spending money on the education and awareness-building campaign around coercive control. I've said many times that I want all women and girls to know that this behaviour is unacceptable and criminal. I was reflecting on that language last night, and I was thinking that, actually, I want all men to know that this behaviour is unacceptable and criminal. Statistically, we all know someone who has experienced gender-based violence or who has experienced intimate partner violence. It also means that we all know someone who has perpetrated it. It's so essential that we are doing the work and that this government is investing in the services and campaigns that will actually protect victims.
NDP
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
Thank you very much, Mr. Garrison.
We will now start our second round with Mr. Van Popta for four minutes.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lena Metlege Diab
You have five minutes, and if you take a few extra seconds, that's okay.
February 15th, 2024 / 8:50 a.m.
Conservative
Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC
Okay. I'll try to save 15 seconds.
Thank you for being here, Ms. Collins, and congratulations on getting your private member's bill this far. We wish you the best in possibly getting it all the way through Parliament.
Mr. Mendicino made reference to another study that this committee had done. The report coming out of that was titled, “The Shadow Pandemic: Stopping Coercive and Controlling Behaviour in Intimate Relationships”. One of the recommendations, recommendation 2, said, “concerning the drafting of government legislation regarding a coercive and controlling behaviour offence in the Criminal Code, [consider] Bill C-247 as possible language”. I believe that was the earlier version from Mr. Garrison.
Do you have any comments on why the government has not proceeded with this, made it a government bill and expedited it through the whole process, leaving it to you as yet another person bringing forward a private member's bill?
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
I have tried to be completely generous in my comments, but I feel frustration. I am frustrated that the government has not done this. It's been two years since the justice committee recommended that coercive control be criminalized, and we had the ombudsperson recommend to the government criminalizing coercive control.
Every six days, a woman dies from intimate partner violence. Think about that. Of course, this will not prevent every act of femicide, but it will make a difference.
I am extremely disappointed that the government has not done this on its own. I am honoured to work with my colleague Mr. Garrison to bring this forward, but government bills go more quickly through the House. This could have been done two years ago. It needs to be done now. A government bill could also include things that would provide funding for frontline organizations and for victims who are going through the criminal justice system. It could provide the funding for the awareness campaign required if this is going to be successful.
I wish this government had done this already.
Conservative
Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC
Thank you.
As in all criminal matters, it's one thing to create a new law or to define a new offence, as you are doing with your bill by calling this controlling and coercive behaviour, but it's another to actually prosecute the crime. That's often where the difficulty is.
My colleague Mr. Moore raised an example coming out of our study on human trafficking. My question is not about human trafficking but about the difficulty in prosecuting relationship issues.
Ms. Holly Wood from an organization called BRAVE Education gave testimony. She talked about a young woman who was in a relationship, and I want to quote a sentence or two. She said:
As a 19-year-old girl, she was trafficked by a man she loved and who she thought was her boyfriend. She had a relationship with her trafficker. He trafficked her in five cities across Canada. After years of being trafficked, she learned what trafficking was. She learned that she had, in fact, been trafficked.
She complained. She pressed charges and she went to trial, but at the trial, when she saw this man, she realized she was still in love with him and refused to give testimony.
It's over to you.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
It's so deeply saddening to hear those stories. Gender-based violence is so insidious and human trafficking is so horrific.
I think we can learn some lessons from other jurisdictions. One thing is the support we give to survivors and victims while they're going through this process, but another is ensuring that our criminal justice system can prosecute these cases. There have been recommendations, especially if you folks want to look at some of the research coming out of Scotland, on how to allow these cases to go forward such that you don't require as much revictimization of the victim and you aren't putting them in contact with that former partner and abuser as much.