Justice Committee on March 21st, 2024

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Why are you refusing to answer my question?

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I support bilingualism and the fact that people must be understood when they make a speech or appear before the commission.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I'm in favour of apple pie too, Minister. There's no doubt about that.

However, I think my question is simple enough. I have to admit that I was very surprised to find myself in a situation where your Conservative colleagues supported my request, which is clearly a matter of a common sense, to use an expression that's become a little tired these days. Indeed, common sense dictates that the nine commissioners should speak and understand French and English. I don't think it's unreasonable to find nine bilingual commissioners among tens of millions of Canadian citizens.

You're dancing around my question. Furthermore, one member of your party has opposed my request, as basic as it is. Everyone in Quebec agrees with this proposal, and the same is probably true for most people elsewhere in Canada.

Minister, before my time expires, I'm going to ask you my question about bilingualism within the commission one last time. Do you agree, yes or no, that the nine commissioners should speak and understand French and English?

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

We are strongly support bilingualism. We enacted new legislation on official languages in Canada—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. Unfortunately, the minister's sales pitch—

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

We want people—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

—with all due respect, doesn't interest me this morning.

Thank you.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

We want everyone to be properly understood by the commission.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

My time is up, and I'd like the minister to stop there.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you very much, Mr. Fortin and Minister Virani.

Mr. Garrison, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

We are eagerly awaiting the passage of the miscarriage of justice act because of its disproportionate impacts on some communities, including indigenous communities, in Canada.

What Mr. Fortin continues to ignore is that an absolute requirement of bilingualism is in place for the commission. Imposing that on all nine commissioners would mean that well-qualified people who speak a first nations language plus one of the other official languages in Canada would be excluded from appointments, if his hard and fast rule were applied.

I want to ask more generally on that question about the progress being made on the recommendations—the calls to justice—about the missing and murdered indigenous women. There are 231 calls in the areas for which you're responsible as a minister. There has been some criticism that the result has been mostly committees and very little hard action to address those concerns.

Can you speak about the progress that's being made in the area of justice?

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Garrison, for the question highlighting a very important subject.

With respect to MMIWG, those 230-plus calls to action are being worked on, particularly the ones in our jurisdiction. We are working diligently on all aspects of it. The UNDA action plan speaks to that. I think the work we're doing with respect to intimate partner violence and reverse onus on bail also speaks to that.

On the issue of the miscarriage of justice commission, I would return to what I said when I was here. We have a situation where we've overturned about 27 cases in 20 years. The Brits have done 500 cases in the same time span. That's statistically improbable. It's not because their system is inferior to ours; it's because we're not finding the cases.

Twenty-two of those 27 cases were white men. We know that statistically there is overrepresentation of indigenous and Black persons in our justice system. We're going to find those cases and we're going to find them with a robust commission.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Once again, I want to draw attention to real-world consequences. The delays we've had in getting this up and running mean that people who are likely not guilty of anything are continuing to serve sentences, whether that's in custody or in the community. By the delays we're having with passing legislation and getting it set up, we're perpetuating injustices. I wonder if you would agree with me that this is a serious concern.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I think it's an extremely serious concern. I find it quite flabbergasting that it has become a partisan matter about keeping an innocent man or woman in prison. That should never be partisan. Again, I would say to you that, if other countries are able to overcome partisanship on such a basic fundamental premise, we should be able to as well. It's unfortunate that we are not able to.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you very much.

Do you have any concluding remarks, Minister?

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

My concluding remarks would be, with respect to Bill S-210 proposed by Senator Miville-Dechêne, that there are very legitimate questions that relate to privacy interests. We need to understand that age verification and age-appropriate design features are entrenched in Bill C-63, something that Monsieur Fortin seemed to misunderstand.

Second, the idea of uploading the age-verification measure such as one's government ID is something that has been roundly criticized, including by people like law enforcement, who'd be concerned about what that kind of privacy disclosure would do in terms of perpetuating financial crimes against Canadians.

What we need to be doing here is keeping Canadians safe by ensuring that their age-appropriate design measures have been informed by a conversation between law enforcement, government and the platforms themselves. There are examples of how to do this, and we're keen to work on those examples and to get this important bill into this committee so we can debate the best ways forward.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you for those concluding remarks.

As the chair, I'm especially looking forward to having that bill come before me, particularly as a previous, I guess, justice minister who dealt with it in Nova Scotia when a young girl committed suicide because of exactly what we will be dealing with here.

Thank you very much for those concluding remarks.

Thank you to the staff.

I'm going to suspend for a minute to allow you to take your leave, and then we will continue with our motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

As we're getting ready to start with the motion, I just want to let all members know that, following up on the meeting with the Norwegian standing committee on justice members, the suggestion is that we meet them the next time we meet on Monday, which is the date they wanted, Monday, April 8, from 11:45 to 1:00. We will let you know which room that is taking place in.

If that is agreeable to you, we would have to adopt a hospitality budget, which reads as follows:

That the committee meet, in an informal meeting, with a delegation from the Committee of Justice of Norway on Monday, April 8, 2024, at 11:45 a.m.; and that the committee defray the hospitality expenses related to this meeting.

I remind you also that Ambassador Trine Jøranli Eskedal would like to invite all the committee to a reception in the Norwegian residence on Tuesday, April 9, in the evening.

Can I have somebody move the motion that I just read, if this is all acceptable to you all?

It is moved by Mr. Maloney and seconded by Mr. Van Popta.

(Motion agreed to)

Thank you very much.

I'm now going to go to Mr. Housefather on the motion we have before us.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to my fellow committee members.

The motion I want to put forward is the one we have in front of us:

That pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and in view of the alarming escalation of antisemitism in Canada, the committee undertake a study on the issue of antisemitism and the additional measures that could be taken to address the valid fears that are being expressed by Canada's Jewish community.

That the study include but not be limited to the issue of antisemitism on university campuses.

That the study should be at least three meetings and that the committee report its findings to the House.

Madam Chair, briefly, I had a chance on Monday to deliver a speech in the House that dealt very much with this issue. The Jewish community in Canada is feeling frightened to a level I have never seen. While, anecdotally, people are taking mezuzahs off doors and are afraid to send their kids to school, the vast majority of Jewish Canadians are affected in a broader way. Those are anecdotal, small incidents. I don't think that's happening much. What is happening is people expressing their fears to me and wondering if they're safe in this country and have a future in this country, which I never in my life believed would happen in Canada.

I don't see that anywhere near as much, frankly, when I'm in the United States. Something is happening here. Anti-Semitism is happening around the world, but the perception of the community in Canada is drastically different from what I find south of the border. I think the committee needs to look into what is happening and what we can do.

I'm going to talk about two issues very briefly, which I think are the most poignant and important ones.

One of these is the demonstrations happening, and the lack of policing related to those demonstrations. People are blocking buildings, shouting things deemed to be hateful and intimidating people entering or leaving a building, and the police are not moving people back so that there's a safe line that allows for a differentiation between the people trying to enter or leave and the protesters. That's one thing. Why are Jewish buildings a target in Canada, and how is this making people feel? I would like the opportunity to hear from Jewish Canadians and Jewish organizations about how they feel and what they think we could do as federal legislators to better protect them from a public safety aspect, a justice aspect, etc.

The second issue is what's on campus. The biggest places where you find people feeling scared and intimidated are campuses. This is happening from Newfoundland to British Columbia. It's happening in my province of Quebec. It's happening in Ontario. It's happening everywhere. Some colleagues and I wrote a letter, in December, to the presidents of the biggest universities in Canada. We have received responses from all of them, which we can table. I think we need to hear from Universities Canada and the presidents of universities on what they're doing to protect Jewish students, and we need to hear from Jewish students regarding what they're experiencing on campus. Then we can opine on what solutions we might be able to recommend to the universities and the minister.

That being said, the most important thing is this: Symbolically, the Jewish community has failed to see leadership at the federal, provincial and municipal levels—from literally everyone. I think, if they see that our committee is interested in this issue, that there is a forum for them and that we are taking their concerns seriously and listening to them, it would be a morale boost because they will think that at least someone cares and there's hope.

I'm hoping that my colleagues will agree to do this study. Of course, I'm happy to listen to amendments and yield the floor.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you, Mr. Housefather.

Mr. Mendicino.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Madam Chair, thank you.

I obviously wholeheartedly support my colleague Mr. Housefather's motion. While he is true in all aspects of his remarks, I would add one important caveat, in that there has been a tremendous demonstration of leadership on the part of Anthony Housefather on behalf of his community in the face of some of the most vile hate that I have ever seen, certainly in my lifetime, in a way that I hope that his community will take some hope and inspiration from.

I would just add that in Toronto, my hometown, the police chief there, Chief Demkiw, just reported 48 hours ago that Toronto has seen a 93% increase in the number of reported hate crimes since October 7, 2023, and that compounds the ongoing rising tide of anti-Semitism, which I think parliamentarians, regardless of partisan stripe, have an obligation to deal head-on with.

I would also say that the anecdotes that Mr. Housefather referred to are the same stories that I hear from the community that I represent in Eglinton—Lawrence. The fear, the profound sense of anxiety and, most of all, the deep sense of abandonment that the Jewish community is feeling not only in Canada but around the world in the face of this hate should be a red flag and should sound the alarm for all of us.

There are many things that we need to do in order to push back against this, but I think that having a study that examines carefully some of the issues that Mr. Housefather has already highlighted is one way in which I believe this committee can contribute, and if we don't take this opportunity, I think it will see us take more steps backwards as a democracy.

I certainly hope that all members of this committee will see the value in putting some energy into this report so that we can come together to stem this trend and to reverse it and to continue to see Jewish Canadians and all Canadians live in a society that is free from hate.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Next is Ms. Gladu, please.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I just want to say that I also am extremely concerned about the rise of anti-Semitism in the country. We just had the justice minister here telling us that we already have hate laws, hate speech laws, but people are calling “death to Jews” across the country and not a single charge has been filed.

I'm quite alarmed, when I see the protests, the violence and the targeting of Jewish businesses, that the reaction from the police is not the same as it is in.... We've just seen a fishers' protest going on. The police are there making sure that the protest remains peaceful and are bringing in their horses, but here in Ottawa when we're having pro-Palestinian demonstrations and they're calling out things that are anti-Semitic and kicking in cars and breaking off mirrors, the police are standing by and doing nothing. What is the point of having federal law if you don't have the enforcement of law?

I think that this has come to a crisis point, and I'm very supportive of doing a study to figure out what exactly we can do to use the existing laws and enforce them, and what else we can add to that, because Jews don't feel safe in this country. I'm alarmed at the demise of what was Canada: a free nation where people could feel safe and worship. I think people don't feel safe, and we need to address it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lena Metlege Diab]

Thank you, Ms. Gladu.

Next is Mr. Van Popta.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to Mr. Housefather for your courage in standing up for the Jewish community and putting forward this motion. I think it's a very important study, and I support that we undertake that.

In my home province of British Columbia, at my university, the University of British Columbia, there was a referendum or a threat of one recently to terminate the lease that Hillel House has had on campus for many years. It's a very significant presence in the university. It is a haven for the Jewish student body there. Thankfully, the referendum didn't go ahead, with the good leadership of the student association; but just the fact that the referendum was even suggested, I think, has been very disturbing for not only people in my home province of British Columbia but throughout the country.

The motion also would have included BDS sanctions—boycott, divestment and sanctions—against Israel and anything to do with Israel, and that's just the newest form of anti-Semitism. I find it all very disturbing.

I'm very supportive of having this study to better understand what is going on here in Canada with anti-Semitism, which is something I never thought I would see in my lifetime, and also to demonstrate to the Jewish community that we stand with them and that they are an important part of Canadian culture.

Thank you.