Justice Committee on Feb. 23rd, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Good morning, everybody. I'd like to call this meeting to order. Happy Monday.

Welcome to meeting number 18 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. Pursuant to the order of reference of October 1, 2025, the committee is meeting to continue its clause-by-clause study of Bill C-9, an act to amend the Criminal Code regarding hate propaganda, hate crime and access to religious or cultural places.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. I would like to confirm that sound tests were done successfully.

Before we continue, I ask that all in-person participants consult the guidelines written on the cards on the table. These measures are in place to help prevent audio and feedback incidents and to protect the health and safety of all participants, especially including the interpreters. You will also notice a QR code on the card, which links to a short awareness video.

I'd like to make a few comments for the benefit of witnesses and members. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic. Please mute yourself when you're not speaking. For those on Zoom, you know how to get the interpretation. All comments should be made through the chair, please. For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can. We appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard.

I would like to welcome our witnesses here once more and thank them for their ongoing and continued patience. From the Department of Justice, we have Kristen Ali, manager and senior counsel from the criminal law policy section; Joanna Wells, team lead and senior counsel from the criminal law policy section; and Marianne Breese, counsel from the criminal law policy section.

(On clause 4)

We are still debating Mr. Brock's subamendment to CPC-8.1. That's where we were when we adjourned last meeting. We will pick up where we left off.

Where's the speaking list?

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant South—Six Nations, ON]

We adjourned, so I think we have to establish a new speakers list.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

You're quite right.

Mr. Brock, you have your hand up.

Go ahead, Mr. Fortin.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Mr. Chair, unless I misheard you, I didn't hear you say whether the sound tests had been done and, if so, whether the results were conclusive.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

They were done and they were conclusive, yes. I witnessed it myself.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

It's my pleasure.

Did you have your hand up on that issue only or did you want to speak?

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

It was on that issue only.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Okay.

I'll go in the order I see here: Mr. Brock, Mr. Baber and then Mr. Lawton.

Mr. Brock, you have the floor.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant South—Six Nations, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome back, colleagues. There was a general discussion before we left the House and engaged in a constituency week that there would be some consideration given to a new amendment that clarified the language, ideally trying to reach an agreement on the impasse we had before Christmas regarding the removal of the religious defence in the Criminal Code. I understand that there were some consultations with stakeholders by the government in that regard. I received proposed language late yesterday evening. I've had a brief opportunity to explore that language with my team and to get instructions.

I also had an opportunity to speak with the minister this morning. I understand that someone from the Liberal team will be moving this particular amendment to start off our discussions today.

I simply want to put that on record. I anticipate that this will give every member at committee an opportunity to express their opinion on this religious defence.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you, Mr. Brock.

Mr. Baber.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I think the Conservatives have been very clear: We are of the view that elimination of the religious defence to wilful promotion of hatred is something that we cannot support. There were some good faith discussions about looking to insert another amendment. I point to the fact that Mr. Lawton's amendment, which attempts to deal with that, is still on the floor.

I don't know; I would perhaps leave it to your judgment, maybe with the assistance of the clerk, to see how we can potentially deal with a further proposed Liberal amendment should the government be in a position to present it.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. Lawton.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

Just to be more explicit—I want to respect the privilege at issue here—if the Liberal team and the Liberal government are serious about dealing with the concerns that have been raised about religious freedom and freedom of expression, it is important to put it on record.

I would seek unanimous consent from the committee to deal with the addition of clause 11.1, if someone is willing to move it, and put it as the issue at hand. Once that's dispensed with, we can continue. I seek unanimous consent for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

I understand that you're seeking unanimous consent to do something if they do it.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

I'm seeking unanimous consent to permit any member who wishes to move the amendment to do it at this point in our deliberations on Bill C-9. This is consistent with what the minister, I believe, has communicated to Mr. Brock.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you. There's nothing to vote on in those circumstances.

Is there anything else, Mr. Lawton?

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

I'll add myself to the speaking list.

Seeing that no one said no, is anyone prepared to move this amendment dealing with religious freedom concerns?

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

There's a speaking order. If somebody gets to their turn and wants to move something, we'll deal with it when the time comes.

Unless you're moving something.... I understand. I will get to Mr. Housefather. I'm simply asking if you're done.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

Yes, but I'm seeking unanimous consent.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

What is the unanimous consent for?

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

It is to allow new clause 11.1 to be moved at this point.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Okay. Thank you.

Do you mind if I go to Mr. Housefather first? I suspect he'll address this.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

Absolutely.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you.

Mr. Housefather.