Justice Committee on March 11th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Good afternoon, everybody. I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting 20 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights.

Pursuant to the order of reference of October 1, 2025, and the House order of March 10, 2026, the committee is meeting to continue its clause-by-clause study of Bill C-9, an act to amend the Criminal Code regarding hate propaganda, hate crime and access to religious or cultural places.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely by using Zoom.

I believe Mr. Fortin is there.

Can you hear us, Mr. Fortin?

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Good morning, Mr. Chair. Yes, I am here and my sound checks have been carried out. Everything was perfect.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you.

The sound tests have been done. That's great.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of members. Please wait until I recognize you before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click the microphone icon to activate your mic. Please mute yourself when you're not speaking. For those on Zoom....

Mr. Fortin, you know how the system works. I don't need to explain that to you, I'm assuming.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

That's okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you.

I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair. If you wish to speak, raise your hand—including you, Mr. Fortin, on Zoom. The clerk will manage the speaking order.

There are no questions for the officials, but, having said that, I want to welcome our witnesses: Kristen Ali, manager and senior counsel, criminal law policy section; Joanna Wells, senior counsel and team lead, criminal law policy section; and Marianne Breese, counsel, criminal law policy section.

We're all here as a result of this bill being here, first of all, but also pursuant to the order that was passed in the House of Commons yesterday. The order was adopted yesterday that the meeting cannot be adjourned until we conclude our study of clause-by-clause of this bill.

Once we begin the meeting, which we have, questions will be put, beginning with new clause 11.1 and its subamendment, which was debated when we adjourned on February 25, and then we'll go to the subamendment from Mr. Brock to Mr. Lawton's amendment CPC-8.1, followed, in order, by other amendments as stated in the agenda. Votes will continue forthwith, successively, on the remaining clauses and other votes necessary to dispose of Bill C-9 at the committee stage.

Let's get right into this.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

On a point of order—

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Okay. I wasn't going to read this, but I will: Points of order are permitted, but you have to cite the rule that you're referring to, and it has to be related to the procedure adopted by the House yesterday.

Go ahead, Mr. Lawton.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

The rule is, and the Standing Orders are clear, that committees are masters of their domain.

I think it needs to be noted for the record that we have been silenced by your government on—

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

This is not a point of order, Mr. Lawton. You're out of order.

Pursuant to the order yesterday, there is no debate, and there are no submissions. We're here to go through it clause by clause and vote—

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

No speeches—yes, exactly.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

No speeches, Mr. Lawton. We've had more than 30 hours of opportunity to do that.

We now move to Mr. Lawton's—

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

On a point of parliamentary inquiry, the order is silent on further subamendments.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

There are no amendments and no further subamendments allowed once the meeting starts.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I'm not sure how the chair concluded that.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

That's what the order says, and that's the way we're proceeding today.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Where in the order does it say that there are no subamendments?

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

We're going to move into clause-by-clause, Mr. Baber. That's the procedure we're operating under today, so let's move on.

We're now voting on Mr. Lawton's subamendment to Madame Lattanzio's amendment about new clause 11.1. When we are done with these two, we'll go back to Mr. Brock's subamendment to CPC-8.1.

We're calling new clause 11.1 and the subamendment to LIB-6.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

On a point of privilege, Mr. Chair, with respect, I read the order—

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. Baber, we are not going to do this. It's very clear that we are here to vote on it. We are not making submissions. We are not making speeches.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I'm not—

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

I understand, Mr. Baber. We spent the last two days voting in the House on this. This is the procedure we are operating under, and this is what we're going to do, so I'm going to—

[An hon. member]

The order doesn't preclude points of privilege.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I'd like to talk about the order. I'm specifically referring to the order. The order does not preclude subamendments.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Yes, it does.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Can we please look at it?