Evidence of meeting #22 for Justice and Human Rights in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-16.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Silverstone  Chief Executive Officer, Sagesse Domestic Violence Prevention Society
Kim  Senior Staff Lawyer, Women's Legal Education and Action Fund
Irons  As an Individual
Law  Executive Director, Rise Women's Legal Centre
Thomson  Manager, Justice and Legislative Affairs, Humane Canada
Stamatakis  President, Canadian Police Association

Kerri Thomson Manager, Justice and Legislative Affairs, Humane Canada

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, vice-chairs and committee members. Thank you for the opportunity to appear today.

Humane Canada is the federation of humane societies and SPCAs across 10 provinces and two territories. Our members are the organizations that Canadians rely on most to care for abused and abandoned animals, advocate stronger protections and support communities with resources and education.

We are also the founders of the Canadian Violence Link Coalition, a partnership of multisector stakeholders examining the well-established connection between animal abuse and human violence, known as the violence link, which is often present in coercive control, intimate partner violence and child sexual abuse.

I'm here today to support Bill C-16 and its measures addressing animal sexual abuse images. These images are frequently used by predators to groom children and normalize sexual abuse. Animals are also used directly as tools of coercive control by abusers, and their abuse can signal escalation toward more severe forms of intimate partner violence. We are grateful to Minister Fraser for including these often-forgotten victims in this bill.

However, we must draw your attention to another emerging threat: animal cruelty and torture imagery. This content is being used by violent online networks to target and recruit vulnerable children and youth by desensitizing them toward extreme violence.

Evidence from the RCMP and our own research indicates that nihilistic online groups like The Com and 764 groom young people to build trust, and then coerce them into creating and sharing increasingly severe content, such as animal torture, bestiality, child sexual exploitation and self-harm. These networks operate in plain sight on platforms such as Telegram, Roblox, Discord, Minecraft and Twitch, often luring targets to other platforms to continue grooming away from moderator oversight.

There are also organized groups producing cruelty content, such as “crush videos”, for profit. The recent Winnipeg case of a couple who created and sold animal crush videos to a Telegram group of over 100 members, which required applicants to provide videos of themselves torturing an animal to gain membership, demonstrates that this violence is happening right here at home.

While the Criminal Code addresses some forms of animal cruelty and sexual abuse, and Bill C-16 would criminalize the creation and distribution of bestiality representations, there is no meaningful mechanism to address non-sexual animal torture and cruelty content being created and circulated online. This material harms the animals involved and causes serious trauma to children, youth and adults who may encounter it, whether intentionally or not. Worse, it can normalize violence and inspire viewers to act.

In the brief we submitted, we recommend strengthening Bill C-16 by criminalizing the creation, distribution and possession of all animal cruelty and torture content and by adding the creation and possession of animal sexual abuse imagery to the offence proposed under proposed subsection 160(3.1). These additions would help close existing loopholes and better reflect modern criminal harms.

Recent media articles and recent research underscore the urgency of this issue. Just this past December, our government declared online nihilistic groups such as 764, Maniac Murder Cult, and Terrorgram Collective as terrorist entities under the Criminal Code. These are the largest groups using child sexual abuse materials, or CSAM, and animal torture imagery for maximum shock value and their ability to desensitize potential victims.

The United States' 2019 Preventing Animal Cruelty and Torture Act allows for prosecution of these offences both within and outside U.S. borders, something that Canada's current laws do not easily permit.

A new report by Finland's Protect Children, sponsored by the U.K. online safety regulator Ofcom, involved over 20,000 adults who had viewed CSAM. Nearly half of those respondents had also sought out or encountered other illegal content, most commonly animal cruelty, self-harm and extreme violence. This intersection of violence is clear.

Finally, laws are only as effective as their enforcement, so we urge that any amendments involving animal victims include mandated training for justice stakeholders on the nuances of animal abuse in relationship violence. Humane Canada would be happy to support the government with research, training and outreach to ensure that these measures are implemented effectively.

Thank you. I look forward to your questions.

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thank you, Ms. Thomson.

It's over to you, Mr. Stamatakis.

Tom Stamatakis President, Canadian Police Association

Good evening, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today on behalf of the Canadian Police Association, representing more than 60,000 frontline police personnel in Canada.

The CPA broadly supports Bill C-16, the protecting victims act. From a frontline policing perspective, this legislation represents a meaningful and necessary step toward strengthening protections for victims, modernizing key elements of the Criminal Code and addressing ongoing operational challenges within Canada's justice system.

At its core, Bill C-16 reflects the realities that police officers encounter every day. The creation of a new offence targeting coercive or controlling behaviour toward an intimate partner is an important recognition that violence is often a pattern of escalating conduct, not a single incident. Earlier intervention tools in these cases can help prevent more serious harm.

The amendments to criminal harassment, moving from a subjective fear standard to an objective reasonableness test, will better align the law with how these offences are investigated in practice.

We also support strengthened provisions related to child protection, including new offences addressing the recruitment of youth into criminal activity and measures to combat online exploitation, which are areas of growing concern for our frontline officers.

Mr. Chair, I would like to focus on what we see as one of the most important elements of this bill: the provisions addressing delay in the justice system.

Since the Supreme Court's decision in Jordan, frontline police have seen the real consequences of delay in criminal proceedings. While it was intended to protect the rights of the accused, the operational reality is that serious cases are too often at risk of being stayed due to timelines that do not always reflect the complexity of modern investigations.

Bill C-16 takes a constructive step forward by providing clearer guidance to the courts in assessing delay, including recognizing case complexity and reinforcing that a stay of proceedings should be a last resort. When serious cases are stayed due to delay, the impact is immediate and tangible. Victims are left without resolution, communities lose confidence in the system, and the work of frontline officers is undermined. These reforms help restore balance by ensuring that delay analysis better reflects the realities of contemporary policing, including digital evidence, multi-accused prosecutions and the demands placed on victims and witnesses.

Mr. Chair, I'd also like to briefly address some of the concerns that have been raised about this legislation.

We have heard criticism that certain provisions go too far or reflect a particular ideological direction. From the perspective of frontline policing, we would suggest that this debate should remain grounded in practical realities. There is broad support across Canada for police and for holding offenders accountable, but that accountability depends on having a justice system that is equipped to respond to modern crime. Today's investigations are more complex and more digital and often involve vulnerable victims. Measures that clarify offences, modernize tools and help ensure that cases are not lost to delay are practical responses to those challenges, not ideological choices. Public safety policy is strongest when it's guided by evidence and operational experience. In our view, Bill C-16 largely reflects that approach.

In closing, the Canadian Police Association supports Bill C-16 as an important and constructive step forward. It strengthens protections for victims, improves the ability of frontline officers to respond to evolving crime and begins to address long-standing challenges related to delay in the justice system. We encourage all members of Parliament to focus on the practical impact of this legislation and the shared goal of maintaining a justice system that is both fair and effective.

Thank you. I look forward to your questions.

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thank you very much.

We're going to start the first round. We're going to shorten it from six minutes to five minutes each, in anticipation of the bells coming. Then we can get a full round in. Is everybody in agreement with that? Okay.

Mr. Gill, I believe you're starting us off for five minutes.

5:55 p.m.

Conservative

Amarjeet Gill Conservative Brampton West, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks to all our witnesses.

My question is for Mr. Stamatakis.

Do you believe that Bill C-16 is strong enough on criminals to protect victims?

6 p.m.

President, Canadian Police Association

Tom Stamatakis

As I said in my remarks, I think it's a step in the right direction. I think it gives our members more tools in terms of how to respond to issues like coercive control and how to deal with the growing issue of the exploitation of children by using technology to engage in those kinds of activities. I think it's a step in the right direction. Can there be more? I think you can always come up with suggestions in terms of how to improve legislation.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Amarjeet Gill Conservative Brampton West, ON

You said that it's a step in the right direction. Do you think we have to take more steps to make it robust?

6 p.m.

President, Canadian Police Association

Tom Stamatakis

I heard some testimony earlier about including in the legislation language around protecting seniors, who are often victims of coercive control or inappropriate conduct from family members or other people they have relationships with. That's just one example where there could be more added to the legislation.

However, as I said, I think this is a step in the right direction.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Amarjeet Gill Conservative Brampton West, ON

Do you believe that this bill does enough to deal with repeat offenders, particularly for intimate partner violence?

6 p.m.

President, Canadian Police Association

Tom Stamatakis

This is a conversation that's been happening in Canada for some time. There's a lot of consensus that we aren't appropriately dealing with repeat violent offenders. I think there's other legislation currently before the House specifically with respect to bail reform, which I think is a step in the right direction as well.

Any time we can modernize legislation so that there are better, more effective tools for police to use, yes, we will do a better job of protecting people who are being victimized.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Amarjeet Gill Conservative Brampton West, ON

Do you think that current bail provisions, such as the incomplete Bill C‑14 on bail and sentencing, undermine the intent of this bill?

6 p.m.

President, Canadian Police Association

Tom Stamatakis

No, that's not what I think at all.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Amarjeet Gill Conservative Brampton West, ON

Do you believe that law enforcement has sufficient resources to keep up with this proposed legislation?

6 p.m.

President, Canadian Police Association

Tom Stamatakis

I think that resources in law enforcement in Canada generally are a challenge. The challenge is different in different parts of the country. For example, in urban areas, we have more police officers and more access to a better response. When you get into more rural, remote parts of the country, we're grossly understaffed in those parts of Canada, which again raises the challenge in terms of how you can respond to people who are being victimized.

In many ways, when you modernize legislation, that creates efficiencies. I think that if we can get into more proactive management of cases, so that they're not being stayed or unnecessarily adjourned, all of those things together will provide better protection. I think this bill takes us in the right direction.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Amarjeet Gill Conservative Brampton West, ON

I'll cede my time to Mr. Baber.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Roman Baber Conservative York Centre, ON

I wish to alert the committee to an article that appeared this morning in the National Post, titled “Fraser says he considered notwithstanding clause after court struck down child porn penalties”. This is an article from this morning, by Stephanie Taylor. I was pleased to learn that Sean Fraser had considered the invocation of the notwithstanding clause.

However, I was reminded of his testimony on Monday, when he suggested that he did not feel that it was appropriate to invoke the notwithstanding clause in response to the Senneville and Naud decision, which struck down the mandatory minimum sentences for child pornography. Specifically in Mr. Naud's case, it awarded him with nine months instead of the mandatory one year, subsequent to him being found in possession of more than 250 videos of children being, effectively, raped. I've put it to the Attorney General that this is precisely the type of scenario—

6 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Mr. Baber, I'm going to have to stop you, for two reasons. One, you're out of time—

6:05 p.m.

Conservative

Roman Baber Conservative York Centre, ON

I have another 35 seconds.

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

You don't.

Two, the bells are ringing.

6:05 p.m.

Conservative

Roman Baber Conservative York Centre, ON

Okay, on the clock here we have four minutes and 35 seconds.

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Mr. Baber, we've had this discussion before. The clock is here. It's the same for everybody. You seem to be the only person who has a problem with it. You're out of time.

The bells are ringing. We agreed we're going to finish this round. I need unanimous consent to adhere to that agreement, in which we'll do five minutes each. We'll move to Mr. Chang and then Mr. Fortin, and then we can adjourn and go vote.

Do I have unanimous consent?

Some hon. members

Agreed.

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Mr. Chang, you have five minutes.

Wade Chang Liberal Burnaby Central, BC

Ms. Thomson, what legal protection currently exists or should exist to help survivors protect their pets or companion animals when leaving an abusive relationship? Does Bill C‑16 improve access to those protections?

6:05 p.m.

Manager, Justice and Legislative Affairs, Humane Canada

Kerri Thomson

Thank you for the question, MP Chang.

The current bill, as it stands, adds provisions for animal victims, as well as survivors of intimate partner violence. The challenge is that the system is not there to support survivors with pets or animals. I believe only 28% of anti-violence shelters accept animals. We welcome this bill for the provisions it adds for animal victims of this type of violence, because they are very often used as pawns in abusers' tactics to terrorize their victims.

It's the systemic supports that exist beyond the criminal element that we need to beef up.