Justice Committee on Oct. 5th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 38 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights.

Pursuant to the order of reference of June 18, 2026, the committee will begin its clause-by-clause study of Bill C-29, an act to establish the financial crimes agency and to make consequential amendments to certain acts and regulations.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, but I realize that there are no members online, so I'll skip all the hybrid format rules.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of witnesses and members: Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

We have appearing today the Honourable Gary Anandasangaree, Minister of Public Safety, and the Honourable Sean Fraser, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada.

Welcome, ministers, to this committee and our study of Bill C-29.

We also have officials here who have accompanied the ministers. We will hear from each minister for five minutes, and then we'll get right into the questions.

We'll start with Minister Anandasangaree for five minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Madam Chair, thank you for the opportunity to appear before the committee to discuss Bill C‑29, an act to establish the Financial Crimes Agency.

I'm very proud to be here with my colleague, the Honourable Sean Fraser, and the officials who are here today.

Let me begin by acknowledging that we are gathered on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

It is such a pleasure to be back at this committee after a couple of years of absence. I've done long-standing work in this committee with many of you who are here today, and I want to acknowledge the new opposition critic who has been appointed to this role.

Thank you, Mr. Khanna.

Thank you, as well, Madam Chair.

This bill is a significant step in Canada's commitment to preventing, detecting and disrupting financial crime in all its forms. Creating this new agency means Canada would now have a dedicated law enforcement body, uniting expertise from the RCMP, our provincial and territorial partners and other Canadian police services to more effectively investigate serious and complex financial crimes. Those can include money laundering, fraud and other offences that are often closely linked to organized crime and terrorist financing. These crimes directly threaten the safety of Canadians.

As the Minister of Public Safety, it is my top priority to protect Canadians, and I am proud to work with my colleagues across government to do so. The financial crimes agency would operate under the responsibility of the Minister of Finance, working closely with the RCMP to ensure strong coordination and added capacity, without duplicating core police responsibilities. The agency will have the capacity to lead investigations on its own initiative and in close co-operation with federal, provincial, municipal and international law enforcement partners.

Let me just say that Canada is one of two countries in the Five Eyes that do not have a financial crimes agency, and we are the only country in the G7 that does not.

During the establishment of the agency, RCMP personnel with the necessary skills and expertise will be assigned to provide interim support to the agency until it builds further capacity. While the financial crimes agency would be a stand-alone body, it would complement Canada's existing coordinated approach to combatting crime and terrorism. Investigations could be carried out in collaboration with an existing law enforcement agency in Canada, such as the RCMP, or with one of our international partners.

I'd also like to underscore that the financial crimes agency would, like the RCMP and CBSA, be subject to the soon-to-be-established public complaints and review commission, or PCRC, because accountability and transparency continue to be paramount in our government's effort to combat crime.

Bill C-29 and the proposed new financial crimes agency are part of our government's bigger picture of strengthening law enforcement through multiple targeted actions. Bill C-12, passed earlier this year, included comprehensive reforms to strengthen AML and ATF supervision, compliance and enforcement. Budget 2025 included investments of $1.8 billion to enhance federal policing and the hiring of 1,000 new RCMP personnel. Of those, 150 will be dedicated to tackling financial crimes, meaning money laundering, organized crime, online fraud and illicit assets.

At the end of the day, these are not abstract concepts for many Canadians. These complex networks of criminals cause real harm, whether through threats of extortion, by stealing cars or by facilitating the flow of illegal, highly dangerous drugs, like fentanyl, in our communities. That is why Bill C-29 and the proposed financial crimes agency are so important. We must use every tool at our disposal to protect Canadians, including through the new agency that Bill C-29 will help stand up.

Thank you again for inviting me here today.

I look forward to your questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Mr. Anandasangaree.

Thank you for your opening remarks.

Mr. Fraser, please go ahead for five minutes.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Excellent. I'll endeavour to speak for less than that, given that Gary covered many of the points I intended to make.

Before I begin my opening remarks, I think it is essential to point out that there is a strategy to promote public safety across the country.

This strategy rests on three pillars. First, strengthening criminal laws. Second, investing to support our borders and those working on the ground. Third, investing to improve public safety in the long term.

This particular bill, I would suggest, falls most cleanly into the pillar associated with supporting the front line. Of course, as Minister Anandasangaree pointed out, there will be direct investments to increase the horsepower with new hires in the RCMP to work on financial crimes, but we also need to give them the tools they need to succeed. Some of those have come through other pieces of legislation that give them the investigative tools, but the establishment of a financial crimes agency will centralize expertise and create points of contact and efficiencies within the investigation process that will make it easier for those on the front lines to do their jobs.

It's essential that we recognize the scale of the problem and the changing nature of the problem when it comes to financial crimes. We're talking about reported losses that exceed $600 million annually. That's a fraction of what we expect may be the true cost, knowing that there's dramatic under-reporting when it comes to victims of fraud. Sometimes we're dealing with individual cases where a person may fall victim to a scam online using new technology with which they are unfamiliar. Other times it will involve sophisticated cross-border operations that are very difficult to track for an individual law enforcement agency that does not have national or international reach.

We also need to recognize that the proceeds of this crime are being used by criminal organizations to fund other illicit activities. By addressing financial crime, we can go upstream in that process to diminish the ability of criminal organizations to do harm to Canadians and other victims around the world.

The path forward will of course involve the creation of the financial crimes agency, which is the subject of this legislation, but I would add, in addition to the points that Minister Anandasangaree laid out, the tools that we're developing through different pieces of legislation. A point that was referenced in the spring economic update of last year indicated that I will be seeking to advance new legislation, or to at least explore new legislation, to support the investigation and prosecution of complex financial crimes going forward. Each of these different portions of the response to financial crime will build together a system that will allow us to more effectively combat crime that increasingly crosses borders, moves quickly and uses new technologies.

With that, colleagues, I'll save whatever time I have left for questions. I thank you for your attention to this matter. We have the opportunity to work together to combat organized crime and protect victims of fraud across Canada.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Minister Fraser. We really appreciate your remarks and for leaving us time to ask questions.

We'll get right into it. For the first six minutes, we'll go to Mr. Khanna.

Please go ahead.

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to both ministers for coming, and thank you to our department officials.

Minister Anandasangaree, how many personnel will be staffed at this new agency?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

The initial expectation is that there will be about 150 from RCMP personnel—

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

How many [Inaudible—Editor]?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

I can't tell you at this point. I think it will be scaled up over a number of years. The first piece of it involves 150 personnel who will be focused on financial crimes and are part of the 1,000 new RCMP personnel hires we're undertaking now.

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Minister, you've mentioned this again, but we heard last week about how the 1,000 RCMP personnel are not all officers. It's actually fewer than that. Only 750 are officers. Are the 150 you're pulling out for this new agency new hires or existing RCMP members?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

It could be a combination of both. Primarily, they will be new hires, because this envisions expertise in the financial sector, whether it be in forensic accounting, actuarial expertise or very specific data expertise. They will be onboarded as part of the 1,000 RCMP personnel we're hiring.

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

In the bill, clause 15 says that the commissioner must enter into an agreement with the RCMP. Has that agreement been officially done yet?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

No, it hasn't, because it's waiting to go through the legislative process. Once the legislation is passed and once the agency is operationalized, that's when the onboarding will take place.

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Shouldn't Canadians know how many RCMP officers you'll be taking off the streets and away from fighting other types of crime? The RCMP commissioner is telling us that we're short 3,400 RCMP officers today. Now you're going to pull more officers to the FCA. Where are they going to come from? If you look at the numbers in the last few years, we have had a net increase of only 62 officers. How fast can you make these officers? I've been to the Depot. They can't produce them fast enough.

You continuously promise “1,000 new”—you literally said that 45 times in Parliament—yet there are no results. Why are you continually making these promises? Are you setting up this agency for failure?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Let me be very clear on the 1,000 new RCMP personnel who are being onboarded. Right now, we're just over the 200 mark. By March of next year, the end of this fiscal year, we anticipate that we will have about 500 individuals onboarded. They are a combination of existing police officers from other jurisdictions who are going through an expedited training process in Chilliwack. While Depot will remain our primary area of recruitment and training for new frontline officers, for those who are experienced—

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

I'm sorry, Minister, but I want to go back to my question. I know you love to talk about those things, but the other question I have for you is this: What is the FCA going to do that the RCMP can't do today? Where is the RCMP failing so that you have to make a new agency for $400 million?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

The nature of financial crimes has evolved. There's a need for concentration. There are 13 or so agencies that are now in the business of fighting financial crime—

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

The RCMP already works with them now. They're already coordinating these efforts with them.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

This will enhance that work. The RCMP will continue to work with the financial crimes agency—

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Is the only difference going to be that you'll be housing them in one building? Is that the only difference we're spending $400 million on?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

No, that's not the only difference. Minister Fraser talked about new legislation that's contemplating—

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

That's not in the act. That's not what we're discussing today.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

It is part of.... If you're asking for the vision of what the financial crimes agency will do, this is what I'm trying to spell out for you.

We will have specific expertise in the financial sector that will be part of this—

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

It's all wishful thinking. In the act, there's no mention of that. You talk about RCMP resources being used. I have frontline officers telling me they're being stretched as it is, and now—

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Mr. Khanna, I think you're conflating contract policing with—