Medical Assistance in Dying Committee on June 16th, 2022

[Cheryl Romaire]

I believe that having access to palliative care would help my suffering. I'm not sure. I don't think it would make enough of a difference to me to make me not request MAID, but I think it would give me the ability to cope with my pain for longer. It would raise my quality of life so that I could live with the physical pain, the things I can't change. I believe that I should have the option to try, and to see if it would help me before I follow through with MAID.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

With respect to your pain management and your quality of life, are the health services providing sufficient management as it stands now? I guess you are saying that palliative care would go above and beyond what medical services you have access to now.

[Cheryl Romaire]

I'm receiving no supports whatsoever. I never have in Alberta. I had to go to Vancouver for treatment, but Alberta health services paid for the treatment—not for the travel, but for the treatment.

The parts of palliative care that I was looking for included counselling for my family, because, as it stood, someone was going to show up at my home, end my life and leave, and my family would have nothing, no counselling, no support whatsoever. That was a part of what I was looking for with the palliative care.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you for clarifying that. That's the end of my time.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Yonah Martin]

Thank you very much.

I'll turn this over to my co-chair now for the round of questions for senators.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Senator Martin.

We'll go to the senators now, for three-minute rounds, beginning with Senator Mégie.

Ms. Mégie, you may go ahead. You have three minutes.

[Marie-Françoise Mégie, Senator, Quebec (Rougemont), ISG]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for sharing their personal experiences with us. Their stories were very impactful, but it was disappointing to hear what they went through.

My first question is for Mrs. Nichols.

Mrs. Nichols, your brother had a mental illness. Do you know whether he had a serious comorbid physical condition?

[Trish Nichols]

I'm going to pass this over to my husband, Gary.

[Gary Nichols]

Alan had a bit of a physical disability. When he was 12 and 13 he had brain surgery to remove a benign tumour. That's what affected his hearing and why later on he needed cochlear implants. When in the last surgery they removed the tumour, they had to take a little piece of the brain, which affected his right side. He used to write with his right hand; he had to learn how to write with his left hand. His walk, of course, was a bit lumbered because his left leg and his left side just didn't work one hundred per cent, but he had no physical disability.

He could walk down the block. For years, he could walk miles. He had stairs in his house; he could go up and down. He would come down from his bedroom and go into the kitchen. He did all his house cleaning, all his own shopping and all his own banking. My brother would come down and drive him to do those chores. His physical ability didn't limit his living by any means.

[Marie-Françoise Mégie]

What I'd like to know is whether he had been diagnosed with a specific illness, other than the brain tumour.

[Gary Nichols]

There was nothing at all—he was treated for nothing.

[Marie-Françoise Mégie]

Thank you.

Could you send us the hospital’s report, if possible? I realize that you may not be able to get it since the case is under investigation. I would also like the college of physicians’ report. I would really appreciate having that information.

Now, I'm going to turn to Ms. Romaire.

Ms. Romaire, I was very disappointed to learn that you were denied palliative care. You are entitled to it. Palliative care is not exclusively for people who are going to die. Palliative care is also available to people who do not have access to curative treatment, therapies that can make them healthy again. The purpose of palliative care is to provide support to ill patients and prevent their suffering.

While I don't know how Alberta’s system works, my advice to you would be to demand access to palliative care. Not only would your family receive support, but so would you. That's what palliative care is. It’s not just for people who are dying. That's what I want you to know.

What's more, this is something that the committee should examine.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Senator Mégie.

We'll now go to Senator Kutcher.

[Stanley Kutcher, Senator, Nova Scotia, Lib.]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Unfortunately, I was held up at a previous engagement and wasn't here to hear the full testimony of the witnesses. Therefore, I think it would be quite inappropriate for me to ask questions about testimony that I did not hear.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Very well. We will go to Senator Wallin.

Senator Wallin, you can take four minutes.

[Pamela Wallin, Senator, Saskatchewan, C]

Thank you very much, Co-Chairs.

I know that this is very difficult, and I'm sorry that we're subjecting you to this, but I'd like to go back to Mr. and Mrs. Nichols, if I could.

The reason you're hearing these questions is that it's quite stunning for us that there were no doctors involved in this process, that a nurse filled out the form and then carried out—I hesitate to call it a MAID procedure—the procedure with no doctors present.

Is that the case?

[Trish Nichols]

Let me clarify that for you.

That attempt at MAID was on July 19, 2019. That day, there were no doctors available. Our family didn't even know that Alan had applied and was getting MAID. They did not know.... The nurse practitioner did not know where to send Alan's body if she completed it, so she stopped the procedure.

[Pamela Wallin]

Okay, well let me just back up. On what basis had he applied for MAID?

[Trish Nichols]

On his form, where it asked “your reason for applying”, was “hearing loss”.

[Pamela Wallin]

That was the reason he gave.

[Trish Nichols]

That was what was on his application form.

[Pamela Wallin]

Okay, but had he at some point requested MAID?

[Trish Nichols]

He filled in the form.

You know, we don't really know what happened. We're still trying to get information from the hospital. We have asked for specific forms that we have now received. We wanted to see the application form.

That day, on July 26, when the MAID was actually performed, we asked the doctor if we could see his signature, on anything, and she said, “You'll have to ask Alan for that. He's the only one who can provide that.” Well, he was getting prepped for his end of life. He wanted nothing to do with that.

[Pamela Wallin]

Did you have any discussion with him at that moment? Did you say, “I didn't know you'd requested MAID. Are you sure you want to go through with this?”

Was he of sound mind at that moment, as far as you know?

[Trish Nichols]

Yes. The day before we arrived and we spent that evening with him, we tried to talk him out of it. We just wanted to bring him home and get him out of the hospital.