Medical Assistance in Dying Committee on Nov. 4th, 2022

[Neil Belanger]

I'm probably not as familiar as I should be with the Infants Act in B.C., and I may be wrong in my interpretation. I believe that mature minors under that act can make certain decisions in their best interests for their medical treatment. I also think the hospital can step in and challenge that, or the medical service can challenge that if they're refusing treatment that is for their benefit and that will continue. I may be wrong. I believe that's the same in Alberta, from what I know.

These questions about mature minors at end of life look at track one only. We never look at the intersection and what that means for track two. If we pass a law that allows mature minors to do this at whatever age—and we've heard as young as 12—we know that next it will be track two for mature minors with disabilities not at end of life, or with a mental illness. We know that's the progression that will happen. We can't discuss one without the other—

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Belanger.

I'm sorry, but I only have 30 seconds and I want to get in a quick question for Dr. Verhagen.

Just very quickly, sir, how has Dutch political polling been on this issue? What has society's reaction been to how the law has been implemented and to the possible changes? I just want to compare that to what's going on here in Canada.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Yonah Martin]

Answer very briefly, Dr. Verhagen.

[Dr. Eduard Verhagen]

We've had the law since 2002, and there's hardly been any discussion about its implementation. It helps that euthanasia in mature adults is so extremely rare.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Yonah Martin]

Thank you very much.

I'll now turn this back to my joint chair.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Senator Martin.

I regret to say that we'll only have time for one senator. I will arbitrarily go to the first person on my list, Senator Kutcher, for three minutes.

[Stanley Kutcher]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Senator Dalphond and I discussed this already, so I'm speaking on our joint behalf.

First, I would ask Dr. Verhagen to send us the four-year study that he referred to so we can have a chance to read it.

I have two questions, one for Dr. Beck and one for Dr. Verhagen. I'll read both out, and then you can please respond.

Dr. Beck, in your opinion, can properly trained clinicians conduct the necessary thoughtful and well-considered assessment and look at all those factors of capacity you discussed for mature minors in consideration of medical conditions, including potential MAID?

The second is for Dr. Verhagen. We've been told that if we allow MAID for mature minors, the floodgates will open and large numbers of young people will die as a result of MAID. In your experience, was a similar sentiment common or talked about in your jurisdiction before the law was put into place? If there was a similar sentiment, what was the reality in terms of what that sentiment actually was?

[Dr. Gail Beck]

I can answer fairly quickly.

For physicians in particular, clinical psychologists and other practitioners, the assessment of capacity would be considered essential in their scope of practice. They probably wouldn't have succeeded in their exams if they hadn't been able to assess capacity.

[Stanley Kutcher]

That would be a yes, then.

[Dr. Gail Beck]

Yes.

[Stanley Kutcher]

Go ahead, Dr. Verhagen.

[Dr. Eduard Verhagen]

The fear of a slippery slope was mentioned twice, first when the euthanasia law was accepted in 2002, and it never became a reality. The numbers have never gone up.

The second time was with neonatal euthanasia. Some people expected huge numbers of newborns to be killed, but it never happened. Instead of three cases every year before the legislation, we went down to three cases in 15 years, so there was no slippery slope there.

[Stanley Kutcher]

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you very much.

With that, I'm afraid we'll have to conclude panel number two.

Thank you very much, Dr. Beck, for being here this morning. Thank you, Dr. Verhagen, for your testimony. Thank you, Mr. Belanger, for your important testimony. We very much appreciate it. It will help us with our deliberations.

With that, this meeting is adjourned.