Evidence of meeting #28 for Medical Assistance in Dying in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was disability.
A video is available from Parliament.
8:30 p.m.
Associate Professor, Internal Medicine Section, Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
MAID assessors aren't counselling people to die. They're counselling—
8:30 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (De Lorimier), PSG
You're referring to some colleagues who practice in the same hospitals as you, for example.
8:30 p.m.
Associate Professor, Internal Medicine Section, Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
As I was saying, I'm talking about the acute care very early on.
People have to make those counselling.... They have to counsel people about these things every day, again not just about—
8:30 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (De Lorimier), PSG
If they counsel a patient to die, what does it mean—that the advice to the patient is to apply for MAID?
8:30 p.m.
Associate Professor, Internal Medicine Section, Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
No, as we heard from our other witness, there are many ways to die, and one of them is to withhold treatment. In the ICU, the doctors have to counsel patients all the time about whether we carry on with aggressive treatments or whether we back off and basically pull the plug on the ventilator.
8:30 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (De Lorimier), PSG
Thank you.
I think this is very important. I think you also said that MAID was a death serum. In such a case, it's not an issue of MAID; it's about the relationship between the patient in the intensive care unit and the doctors.
Thank you.
8:30 p.m.
Liberal
8:30 p.m.
Associate Professor, Internal Medicine Section, Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
I was just going to say that it's the perspectives that are given to people in the acute care that they will take with them as to what their life value is worth. If it's not the appropriate perspective, because they don't know what people will live like in five years, then, as I've said, it's a preconceived notion that people bring with them to their injury. Their health care providers bring it with them, and their loved ones often bring with them. It's putting them in that mindset so that person wishes to die even more.
We've heard that many people in their first several years wish to die. My point was to compound why many of these patients wish to die. They feel that they have low worth now that they have their severe disability, because that's their preconceived notion.
8:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Joint Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Thank you, Doctor.
We'll now go to Senator Martin for three minutes.
8:35 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Yonah Martin
First of all, thank you to all of our witnesses.
My question is for Mr. Shannon.
In your testimony you said that paragraph 241.2(1)(c) states that a grievous and irremediably medical condition will make a person eligible for MAID. You said, “Canadian human rights legislation and the Supreme Court state that physical and mental conditions are personal effects to be protected from human rights abuses in a manner no different from race, sex, gender, religion and many other grounds of discrimination.”
I would like you to elaborate further on this point that you made during your testimony.
8:35 p.m.
Barrister and Solicitor, As an Individual
Thank you.
That goes to the following. While I'm not an expert in Dutch or Belgium law, I speak to the issue of the importance of having a reciprocating relationship between a physician and a patient who might have a question about MAID.
The analysis pursuant to the assessment needs to be thoughtful. The question of remediation has to be more than just talking about spinal cord injury, which I have. Is that grievous and irremediable or it is something such as post-stroke?
It's also whether the person has an apartment that has heat in the winter. Can the person get home care? Can the person get personal support workers?
These are matters that are fundamental to the basics of life. In addition, these are questions that are critical to ask. If that means that a person just needs a small apartment with heating, then I would suggest that they should not be eligible for MAID.
The real sad story in Canada today is that people are getting MAID because they are unhappy with the circumstances of their life, not because of their medical condition. That's un-Canadian.
8:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Joint Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
Thank you very much.
That brings panel two to a close.
I would like to thank our witnesses tonight, Ms. Brittain, Dr. Ethans and Mr. Shannon. Thank you. We're very grateful to you for expressing your views and, of course, for answering our questions. We're, as a committee, seeking clarification so that we can make the right decisions with respect to this extremely important issue. We very much value your testimony tonight. Thank you very much for giving us your time.
With that, we will bring this second panel to a close.
Our committee meeting is adjourned.