Evidence of meeting #39 for Medical Assistance in Dying in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was illness.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Joint Chair Liberal René Arseneault
Thank you, Dr. Gagnon.
Thank you to all the witnesses.
At the request of your joint chairs, we are going to move in camera to quickly discuss committee business, since we don't have a lot of time left.
Go ahead, Mr. Cooper.
9:25 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I would like to move a motion: That the committee order the immediate production of the CAMAP curriculum module seven, “MAiD & Mental Disorders”.
Let me just very briefly comment, if I may, with respect to the motion that I've now moved.
We have been, as a committee, repeatedly told to trust the CAMAP curriculum, that it is robust and that we can have the assurance that the training is of the highest quality possible. A key question on the issue of whether are we ready for MAID and mental illness is the question of irremediability, being able to accurately predict irremediability, as well as distinguishing between a rational request for MAID and suicidal ideation.
CAMAP was asked three times, by me, to provide the criteria in their curriculum. They were unable to do so. They were unable to do so when Senator Martin followed up. They said it's all very complicated and it's a case-by-case basis. That is precisely what the expert panel said, and it is precisely the reason that the chairs of psychiatry wrote a letter calling on the government to delay the implementation of MAID for mental illness, which would have come into effect in March 2023. It was very disappointing that when CAMAP was asked about providing the curriculum to the committee, this was met with reluctance.
Mr. Chair, this committee, as a standing committee, has the power to compel production of documents. Unless CAMAP can point to a specific provision, by way of legislation, that would protect them from providing this committee with that curriculum, they must do so if this committee adopts such a motion; otherwise, they will be in contempt of Parliament.
Given the seriousness of the issues at hand and the degree to which this curriculum is being relied upon to justify to this committee that we're ready for MAID and mental illness, CAMAP has an obligation to provide this committee with that curriculum. It ought not be one big secret.
9:30 p.m.
Senator, Saskatchewan, CSG
I don't think it's a secret. I think it's the workings of a professional body, so I would move an amendment to say that those documents would be viewed only in camera and not accessible to the public at large.
9:30 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
I don't support it, but she has every right to move the amendment.
9:30 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Yonah Martin
Senator Wallin has moved an amendment to the motion that it be viewed in camera and is not for public consumption.
Is that agreed, or do we need a recorded vote?
9:30 p.m.
Liberal
James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
I don't think we need to overly complicate this thing. I agree with Mr. Cooper, but I agree with Senator Wallin, too. I think it's important that we get access to the document—to the extent there is a document or whatever it is—but there may very well be legitimate reasons that this isn't a public document. I don't know that there are any, but I just think we should tread cautiously in case there are, rather than forge ahead blindly.
9:30 p.m.
Liberal
James Maloney Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
We're all agreeing here. I just don't want to walk into something blindly. That's all.
9:30 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I am somewhat reluctant to agree to the amendment put forward by Senator Wallin, but I think there seems to be agreement that at least getting the curriculum is something that would be appropriate for this committee.
In that spirit, I would accept Senator Wallin's amendment.
9:30 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Yonah Martin
Are we all in agreement with the amendment to the motion?
(Amendment agreed to)
Thank you.
The amendment has been adopted. Now we are on the main motion.
(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
9:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Joint Chair Liberal René Arseneault
We will turn this meeting to an in camera meeting. The co-chair asked to share some information on committee business.
We'll suspend temporarily just to—
9:30 p.m.
Conservative
Shelby Kramp-Neuman Conservative Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Can I ask that we just stay open?
9:30 p.m.
Senator, Saskatchewan, CSG
Can you give us a timeline? The Senate is still sitting, so we're just trying to get back to work here.
9:30 p.m.
Liberal
9:30 p.m.
Conservative
Shelby Kramp-Neuman Conservative Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Is it with regard to briefs or timelines?
9:35 p.m.
Conservative
Shelby Kramp-Neuman Conservative Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
We could probably move quickly in the open, if that's agreeable.
9:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Joint Chair Liberal René Arseneault
We will go in camera. Agreed? Okay.
[Proceedings continue in camera]