Evidence of meeting #4 for Medical Assistance in Dying in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was equality.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Senator, Quebec (Shawinigan), ISG
I work hard every day, but I don't have that much talent.
Liberal
The Joint Chair Liberal Marcus Powlowski
Unless you drink lots of of coffee, you're not going to get it in there.
Senator Wallin, you have three minutes.
Pamela Wallin Senator, Saskatchewan, CSG
My question is for Dr. Lyon.
I read from your professional credentials that you are with the department of environment and geography, and you also work in the field of biodiversity. Is that correct?
Visiting Research Fellow, Centre for Death and Society, University of Bath, As an Individual
That's correct. That's one side of my job.
Senator, Saskatchewan, CSG
Do you have any formal legal training or training in policing or constitutional law?
Visiting Research Fellow, Centre for Death and Society, University of Bath, As an Individual
No, I don't.
Senator, Saskatchewan, CSG
The reason I'm asking is that you've authored and published a paper called “Canada's Medical Assistance in Dying System Can Enable Healthcare Serial Killing”.
That is a very serious allegation, to accuse medical professionals of being serial killers. What was that professional opinion based on when your area is neither medicine or law?
Visiting Research Fellow, Centre for Death and Society, University of Bath, As an Individual
It was several things. One thing I am is a researcher. What I can do is research. When we look at the definition of serial killing that law enforcement services put out, it's quite simple. It's usually something along the lines of killing two to three people in sequence on separate occasions or separate events. That's serial killing.
Senator, Saskatchewan, CSG
You think that's applicable in the medical profession.
Visiting Research Fellow, Centre for Death and Society, University of Bath, As an Individual
The difference between, let's say, criminal serial killing and MAID is that we've created a carve-out in the Criminal Code for medical professionals who engage in discrete homicide.
Senator, Saskatchewan, CSG
No. There are standards and eligibility requirements for the provision of MAID. There's no such situation for serial killers. I mean, let's be realistic here.
Visiting Research Fellow, Centre for Death and Society, University of Bath, As an Individual
What you're speaking about there is basically a definition in law. Criminal serial killing is killing outside the law. When you're killing with MAID—
Senator, Saskatchewan, CSG
Right, and this is not outside the law, which is the distinction I'm trying to make clear here for people.
Visiting Research Fellow, Centre for Death and Society, University of Bath, As an Individual
You are creating a legal form of serial killing in MAID because—
Senator, Saskatchewan, CSG
MAID is actually legal according to the Supreme Court. Do you understand that?
Visiting Research Fellow, Centre for Death and Society, University of Bath, As an Individual
Yes, it is. I'm saying that you're creating a legal form of serial killing. What I'm not saying right now in MAID is serial murder, which would be illegal. MAID is still a form of serial killing, so if you kill two to three or more patients sequentially, you are still committing serial killing within a legal parameter, so by that method—
Senator, Saskatchewan, CSG
If they misdiagnose a person or if the cancer moves more quickly, or if the mental illness can't be diagnosed, you're saying that any medical professional could actually be accused of this. That's your position.
Visiting Research Fellow, Centre for Death and Society, University of Bath, As an Individual
That's not my position.
Visiting Research Fellow, Centre for Death and Society, University of Bath, As an Individual
I know. That's why I'm saying—
Senator, Saskatchewan, CSG
— declared legal by the Supreme Court and by Parliament.
Visiting Research Fellow, Centre for Death and Society, University of Bath, As an Individual
If you take the basic definition that law enforcement uses for serial killing, before you add whether it's within the law or not, you're talking about the difference between a culpable and a non-culpable homicide. MAID legally is a non-culpable homicide, so a series of MAID deaths that are within the law are a series of non-culpable homicides.
Liberal
The Joint Chair Liberal Marcus Powlowski
Thank you, Dr. Lyon and Senator Wallin.
Senator Wells, you have the floor for three minutes.
Kristopher Wells Senator, Alberta, PSG
I'm going to continue what my colleague has just been talking about. Both of our witnesses today have made some pretty serious accusations of doctors being murderers. If this is so extreme, the committee needs to see proof before those accusations can be part of the public record. I'm just going to put that out there.
Dr. Maher, are you aware of the 2026 Environics poll for support of MI-SUMC? The poll question states:
Under Track 2 safeguards, do you support or oppose allowing an adult with the capacity to provide informed consent to seek an assessment for MAID, and, if eligible, receive MAID, when their only medical condition is a severe, treatment-resistant mental illness...that causes enduring and intolerable suffering?
Are you aware of that poll?