National Defence Committee on Jan. 30th, 2007

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

And I also thank the three of you for your presentations.

My first question is addressed to Ms. Niazi. You said that we must put an end to drug trafficking, which has increased considerably over the recent years.

I do not know whether you are of the opinion that the poppy fields must be destroyed, that the poppies grown by the Afghans must be destroyed. Would it not be better to adopt regulations or legislation that would allow poppy growers to sell their products to western countries for medical purposes? Would it be good to take measures of this kind? Moreover, if we destroy the poppy fields, would it not be good to have other crops to grow instead?

I would like to hear what you have to say about this. What should we do? You want to put an end to drug trafficking, but obviously, the poppy fields are at the source of the trafficking.

[Adeena Niazi]

The source of the problem, as you mentioned, is the poppies. Behind that, there are big warlords and drug lords. I don't think legalization of the poppy will help the illegal use of the poppy. What I mean is that the farmers see very little money from that; they benefit very little from poppy cultivation.

The farmers should be given training, adequate equipment, and some other options for growth. For poppies, the soil doesn't need to be very well prepared. Poppies can be grown anywhere; it's very easy to grow poppies. But I think if the farmers have an alternative to that, if they have the equipment, if they have money, if they have training, that could be.... And it's not only the farmers. There was a refugee who came from Afghanistan and claimed refugee status here, and the basis for his claim was that one of the drug lords was forcing him to cultivate poppies. When he refused, he and his family were beaten. That's why he fled Afghanistan and made his refugee claim here, because his life was...and that man was powerful.

We have to see what happened, what went wrong, that after September 11, the poppy cultivation went so high in Afghanistan. Despite all the crimes the Taliban committed in Afghanistan, I can say that during the Taliban, the poppy cultivation was almost zero. What happened? We have to find the main reason for that increase. We have to tackle the source of that, and also provide assistance to the farmers.

I hope I answered that.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, madam.

My second question is for Ms. Brunet. You spoke of improving security for women. You said that security is a permanent problem. Do you think that the missions sent by Canada and other NATO countries are basically too involved with solely military operations and that some basic changes are needed for implementing security measures that are not so military?

[Ariane Brunet]

In fact, there are many aspects to security. We are talking about women's rights and it is not by concentrating on terrorism that the security problems of women can be solved in the towns, villages and schools. That is not true. It means that the numerous commitments to security made by various donor countries must include the security of the Afghan people in exercising their rights under the rule of law. It means that we must focus on justice and put an end to impunity regarding current issues like the harassment of women using public transit, so that women can live a normal daily existence and make social progress.

Currently, we have all kinds of security plans that do not work because they are not coordinated, because security means different things in different places, because we think that things are going badly in the south but that things are going well in the north, which is not true. Therefore, all these disparate views on security in Afghanistan create problems for women on the ground. Another problem for women on the ground is the constant presence of men with guns. This must end at some point. This completely changes one's concept of society. The Afghan people are criticized for having traditional cultural standards for women, and so forth. This is not true. The problem also comes from the 27 years of war. And we have added five years to this, without being able to show these women on the ground that we are moving towards greater equality and not only on paper. Of course, the principles are good and efforts are being made, but on a daily basis, we need to have fewer guns.

When we interview these women in these seven regions that we visit every two years with the consortium, we always get the same answer. Naturally, there is some difference between the condition of women in the city and women in rural areas. In the city, women need less harassment from the police and more respect of the dignity of women. In rural areas, they do want to have a strong national army, but basically, as a woman who has to live with [Editor's note: Inaudible], what I am to do? If I feel treathened, I will go back to my tribe, to my closest relations and the war lord of the area. In that way, I will be much more secure. With all these armies and all these different kinds of security, we end up having no security at all.

I do not know if I am being clear.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you.

I would like to acknowledge Ms. Samad, the wife of the ambassador, for being here. I know you wanted to get into the debate very badly, but I will give you the opportunity, if you have comments that you would like to make, to do them in writing and offer them to the clerk so we can include them in our study.

Thank you all very much. It was a very good session. Hopefully you had the opportunity to say the things you wanted to say when you came. I know some of you came from a distance, and we appreciate that.

To the committee, this brings to an end our study on Afghanistan. Now it is in the hands of our trusted research staff to come up with a very concise and accurate report. We have some time to do that.

Thank you all very much.

The meeting is adjourned.