National Defence Committee on Feb. 22nd, 2007

[Cmdre R.W. Greenwood]

It is a balance. There are a number of national requirements that we have to meet: environmental requirements; health and safety requirements, which tend to be national-specific; there are some national-specific operational requirements, such as ability to operate in cases in icy waters. So one of the things we try to do is concentrate on what are national requirements but not dictate how the solution to those requirements is to be delivered.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, John Cannis]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to our second round now. It's five minutes.

Mr. McGuire.

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm sharing my time with Mr. Martin, so I'll get right to it.

The joint support ships that were ordered and funded during the decade of darkness, at what point are we in the tendering process?

[Terry Williston]

We have just recently awarded two project definition contracts to two consortia, and they will have a 14-month window in which to prepare the designs for the ships. We'll be looking at the product of their work in 2008.

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

There are two firms left that are still...?

[Terry Williston]

Yes.

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

How long is this process? When did it start, and when do you anticipate that it will finish?

[Terry Williston]

Well, it is a multi-stage process. We started off with a pre-qualification stage that began in June 2005. The RFP closed in September 2006, with the contracts being awarded to the two consortia in December of 2006.

As I say, that product is meant to be available for our review in 2008, with the first ships to be delivered in 2012.

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Are there any holdups in the process here? Can we make that process faster? Are there any kinds of anxiety about getting the ships onto the water?

[Terry Williston]

There have been attempts around the edges to make the process faster. For example, we shaved a little off the amount of time given for the project definition work. But even within industry, there is concern that if they try to shorten timelines too much, they won't have sufficient time to pull their teams together, do the work that's required, and deliver a quality product. So we think the timelines that are out there right now are agreeable not only to us from a procurement perspective and from a delivery of product perspective, but also to industry.

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

My last question is whether the admiral is getting his fuel for his ships now so he can participate in NATO exercises. Is that all straightened out?

[VAdm D. Robertson]

I think you're referring to trying to manage within this fiscal year to get the effect that we need. And yes, the ships on both coasts are conducting the training that's required for the balance of the fiscal year.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Mr. Martin, you have two and a half minutes.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Admiral Robertson, Commodore Greenwood, Mr. Williston, and Mr. Lam, for being here today.

I'd like to ask just three very quick questions.

First, I'm hearing some disturbing reports that the subs are going to be scrapped in order to pay for other infrastructure. Is that true or false?

Second, can you give us some indication when the RFPs for the Iroquois replacement will be started?

Lastly, it was my understanding that our current supply ships will be mothballed two years prior to the new ships coming online. Can you tell me if that's true or false? If it's true, don't you think we ought to keep our current supply ships afloat in order to make sure that our navy has the supply required for them to exercise the duties that they do so well?

Thank you.

[VAdm D. Robertson]

With respect to the supply ships, as I think I indicated earlier, in the normal process of decommissioning one ship to commission a new ship, we would naturally tend to decommission something like a year or a year and a half prior and then conduct the training to be able to take on the new ship upon commissioning. That's a ship-per-ship issue. What we would certainly try to do is, having come up with a plan to transition into the lead ship of the JSS, keep one of the older supply ships running so that we would always have an operational capability, if we could.

Actually, until we move to the next stage of the joint support ship process and actually award a contract and have some confidence in the delivery time, we won't finalize our plans for that transition work between the old and the new.

With respect to the Iroquois-class replacement, the navy at this point is working to define the requirements for a new class of ship. So that's internal work that's going to go on for some time, yet before we're prepared to go to industry.

With respect to the issue of submarines, I've certainly heard nothing at all that would indicate that. We're pressing full ahead to deliver operational capability with the boats.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, John Cannis]

Thank you very much, Vice-Admiral.

Monsieur Blaney.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Cannis.

Chief of the defence staff, commodore, Public Works and Government Services representative, welcome to you all this morning.

I appreciate this conversation. I am seeing that on the one hand you have to be able to plan the maritime forces' long-term needs and on the other, Ms. Black clearly referred to the fact that it was also in the industry's interest, because for decades, like over the last, dockyards have, practically speaking, been on life support.

I believe this should be one of our committee's recommendations. Surely, there would be consensus among Canadian members that, regardless of the governments in power, there needs to be a long-term policy with respect to the marine industry, so as to strike a balance between the equipment you need and production.

This leads me to the question I have for Mr. Williston.

You mentioned that not only are needs being felt by the navy, but also by other industry sector stakeholders. When will the meeting that you mentioned take place, the meeting between those who have to get these ships built, the coast guard etc.?

[Terry Williston]

I've talked about two different kinds of meetings.

I talked about a marine procurement outlook conference that happens annually. At the conference, we bring together representatives from the RCMP, the Canadian Coast Guard, Fisheries and Oceans, and DND, and they lay out their long-term requirements for a period of five to ten years. We can get an understanding of the total government requirements. Industry can feed back to us on whether or not they're able to carry out those requirements and can give us some ideas with respect to specific projects. We welcome that kind of feedback.

With respect to what I talked about before on the senior project advisory committee, it generally happens as a project is moving through the approval process. For example, for the DND project, they've decided they want to move forward on the particular project. They'll call an interdepartmental meeting wherein we can review the intentions or objectives of the project and some of the specifics related to those high-level performance requirements. We can collectively discuss the appropriate procurement strategy that will ensure competition to the greatest extent possible and the other socio-economic considerations around any project that any of the departments do.

They're two separate types of meetings.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

At what time of year does the first meeting, the interdepartmental one, take place?

[Terry Williston]

We usually convene in the summer period. For example, it was in June last year. We generally move it around. Last year it was in Halifax. I believe the year before it was in Quebec City, and the year before that I believe it was in Vancouver.

We like to make sure we move it around so that the various industry representatives from large and small companies have the opportunity to participate. We generally have somewhere between 125 and 150 industry participants who come to hear the government's plans for the next decade.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

In my riding, of course there is the Lévis dockyard. When I visited the site, I noticed a scale model with ramps for submarine building. In the end, unfortunately for our industry, these submarines were not built in Canada.

Could you tell us, general, where things stand with respect to the submarines? When do you think they will be operational? Which ones are?

[VAdm D. Robertson]

We've had a very successful past 12 months with submarines, with two operating simultaneously on the east coast over the course of the fall. The submarines participated in a variety of fleet exercises with Canadian and American forces over the past year. In addition, we had training done with the army Pathfinders by one of our boats.

For both the insertion of special forces into the submarine delivered by aircraft and the insertion from the submarine into a coastline, all of the training was conducted quite successfully back in the spring.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Are the four submarines currently operational?

[VAdm D. Robertson]

As you know, the Chicoutimi is awaiting eventual repair when we have the capacity to focus on Chicoutimi. Victoria is undergoing an extended work period on the west coast as part of the normal life cycle of submarines. As I've indicated, the other two were operational on the east coast.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, John Cannis]

We have General Leslie outside, waiting. The first round was to end around ten o'clock. We've done very well, considering we had the motion. I'd ask that we suspend for a couple of minutes.

I want to thank you, gentlemen, for your presentations. We're trying to squeeze in as much as possible.

I have one quick question, if I may. Because shipbuilding is very important to us as a country with our rich tradition and history, when you put out these contracts, is it competitive internationally for bidders, or are they built in Canada? Many of us are asked these questions by our constituents.