National Defence Committee on June 20th, 2006

[MGen Stuart Beare]

First is people. We need to ensure that we don't have to tap into other parts of the organization to run a training system.

Second is partners. The nature of operations today--the whole of government, the three Ds, pick a term--requires us to have our partners and us working alongside each other before we actually get there. We need to do more on that front.

Finally, it's the kit. The quality of equipment we use overseas is the best of its kind in the world. We don't have enough quantity back home, which means we can't leave it all in one place; it needs to move to the training audiences as we designate different task forces to take a lead. We need to change the scale of our equipment back here in Canada, grow it where we're limited, and make sure it's in every place we need it, not just in some places so it has to move around over time.

Those would be my big three.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

We go to Mr. Dosanjh, and that will end this second round. We'll see how much time we have after that.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

You were talking about recruitment and retention. As I was listening, you really didn't answer the most important question. Why is it that you lose people between the time of recruitment and the completion of training, or shortly after they're fully trained? Why are you not getting enough in the first place, in terms of recruits? You didn't answer that question.

[MGen Stuart Beare]

The answer is that from the time a person applies to the time we sign them up, whatever slows that down, that's what's doing it, sir. I think what's slowing it down is, in part, our own practices, which are being challenged by us now, and in part issues of governance, which we can't do much about: security screening, citizenship, and the like.

Really, once you have them on a hook, you have to reel them in and get them signed up. What's slowing that down right now is security clearances, health issues, and other factors.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Is that what you mean by your own practices?

[MGen Stuart Beare]

Yes, our practices or institutions.

When we get them into the training system, however, then we have full control. If we lose them in training, it's not for lack of our effort or lack of their will. At some point or another, what you think you're joining and what you're actually in comes to your mind. What's most important is not asking people why they joined, but why they stayed. What we find is that the ones who stayed understood early on in their training what they were really getting into and said, I'm okay with that.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

We still have some time left, if you wish to go into the third round.

Mr. Hawn.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

You brought up the challenge of citizenship a couple of times. What is your challenge with citizenship?

[MGen Stuart Beare]

Right now, we require folks seeking to enroll in the Canadian Forces to have no less than landed immigrant status. I can't speak specifically to where that comes from. Whether it's a question of legislation or departmental policy or whatever, I don't know at this stage of the game. But that is an issue. There are folks who would seek to be in our army but can't actually wait the year or two years it takes to get landed immigrant status. That's an example of one barrier to rapid enrollment for those who want to be part of us.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

The reason I ask that question is very specific. I've got a private member's bill that's designed to accelerate that by accelerating a person's citizenship by a day for every day they serve in the Canadian Forces, enrolling them prior to their being citizens.

It's worked well in other countries. Are you familiar with the experience in France and the United States where this has been done to a fairly large extent?

[MGen Stuart Beare]

No, sir, I'm not. But anything that accelerates it is a good thing.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Okay.

[MGen Stuart Beare]

The Australian army, as an example, will hire you in a week, because they know what they're getting when they go after people. They'll cover all the rest of that; they'll catch up to it later. It's really extraordinary when they hire a trained military man from another country of their choice in a week. Colleagues of mine have actually taken that route.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Mr. Dosanjh.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Is it not my turn? Was he not finished?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Nobody spoke up when we missed his spot.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

What's that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

The order for proceeding is Liberal, Conservative, and Bloc.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Thank you--

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

There was nobody speaking up when we went to the Conservatives, so now if Mr. Dosanjh wants to....

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Well, he just spoke a few minutes ago.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Yes, but when we ended the second round, it was strange, as we had started the round with a Liberal and ended it with a Liberal. I don't know how we did that.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

If you give me a moment, I'll actually finish very quickly.

I wasn't going to ask this question, but I'm intrigued. I don't know about this practice of taking in people as immigrants, or as prospective immigrants, and processing them and making them soldiers in the army or military. That raises a whole host of questions. And I ask this reluctantly.

I was born and raised in India, and I know that Nepalese Gurkhas are found in the Indian army and the British army; they are great soldiers, but they are essentially fighting for pay, though I didn't want to use that term. As an individual, I'm really concerned about this thrust that we may have, that we should get people coming into this country just to be part of our military. I think people come into the country to be part of the country. While being in the military is a great way of serving the country, I don't know whether you have all of the prerequisites of being able to integrate into the military as a person from this country, if you simply come in to be part of the military. I have serious concerns.

[MGen Stuart Beare]

Yes, sir, and if I represented that as the aim, that's not correct. The aim is to accelerate the journey for people who wish to belong to the military and who are on a journey to citizenship. That's the aim, sir.