National Defence Committee on June 20th, 2006

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

It's interesting to hear the conversation around the table, and I appreciate what Laurie said about good faith. I would like to be able to feel that we could operate here in good faith. I particularly feel I was misled at the meeting on June 13. I can put that behind me. That's fine. But it's very difficult to then adopt a feeling of good faith for all of the committee work.

I think what Claude and Joe have said is important, that we put the motions forward in the way they were presented and we vote on them today. That would in fact clear the air, so to speak.

I think it's important that when we communicate with the witnesses who were dismissed in such a cavalier fashion, we indicate to them that this is not the way we hope to conduct our business in the future. I think we owe them that, and I appreciate the suggestion that we invite them to come back, if they wish, to finish off the rest of the time.

You know, they were only given a couple of days' notice when they were asked to come, because someone else had been dropped off the witness agenda, and I think they made a very valiant effort to be here and fill that space for us. It makes it even worse that they were sort of told that they were no longer welcome to participate in the committee.

So I think after listening to both Claude and Joe, I would like the motions to stand again.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Okay. Well, I suppose I've opened that by trying to put this letter forward to deal with one of the motions we didn't deal with.

I would really like to get this handled today because of all the things you've said, to move on with this committee. I'm fully willing--I guess that's the right word--to take the responsibility. I feel that if I had not left the first meeting and hadn't been caught in that position, we wouldn't be here today, for various reasons. But we are.

Now, the dilatory motion, Ms. Black, I have some problems with, quite frankly--and I guess if we get them back on the table, then we can discuss them. I feel it would tie the hands of the committee in the future, and I'm not sure.... And the other one--

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

I'm prepared to listen to that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

We're over time.

Does everybody have a few minutes to do this? I would sure like to get it done today.

As the chair, I'm going to reintroduce these two motions that we dealt with on June 13. One was a motion to stop any further dilatory motions from being tabled.

Ms. Black moved that the chair accept no dilatory motions while the committee is hearing witnesses.

Are there any comments?

Mr. Calkins.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

So everybody knows, I'm not trying to escalate things here, but as a new person, I wonder if a motion that was already dealt with and considered done, or dealt with at a previous meeting, still has to go through the 48-hour notice. Or can the motion be re-addressed?

I'm wondering that, from a procedural perspective.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

I understand from the committee clerk that we're considering committee business, and if the wish is here to do it, we can get it done.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Chair, I understand that people have some real concerns about this kind of motion, that it would tie the hands of the committee in other instances where perhaps we wouldn't want the hands of the committee tied. So I'm prepared to withdraw that motion and move on to the second motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Okay. That motion has been withdrawn. Thank you, Ms. Black, for that.

Does everybody have a copy of the second motion?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Andrew Chaplin]

No, they do not. They will in a moment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

The second motion states that the committee apologize to Gerry Barr, president and chief executive officer, and Erin Simpson, policy officer with the Canadian Council for International Cooperation; Kevin McCourt, senior vice-president of Care Canada; and Steven Staples, director, security programs, of the Polaris Institute for the behaviour of the Conservative members of the committee on June 8, 2006.

If you all have that motion, I have a letter prepared. It is amendable, or if it satisfies the committee, then we should start with that. Or if you want to start afresh, if this motion does pass, we can have the clerk or someone draw up a new one, whatever your wishes are.

The motion has been presented. Is there any discussion on that motion?

Mr. Hawn.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

To reiterate that, with perhaps some amendments, I believe the letter would satisfy that, and I would intend to vote against the motion on that basis.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Mr. Bachand.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I would be in favour of voting on the motion and including the letter. However, I feel that it is important — and I think that other people may be in agreement with me — that we invite the witnesses to come back in order to complete their testimony if they wish. We will not say that they have to come back. They may be annoyed and may not want to come back. Nevertheless, it seems to me that it is only natural and ethical that we apologize and tell them that we made a mistake. As Joe was saying, 20 minutes were remaining. So if they want to come back and complete their testimony, they can do so. Otherwise, they can send it in writing to us. I would, however, at least like to give them an opportunity to come back and complete their testimony before the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thanks for that.

Mr. Hiebert.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

I would agree with my colleague from the Bloc, that that would be an appropriate step to take, and I would support that sort of approach.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Is there anything else, any further discussion?

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Would Claude like to put his name on the letter also, seeing he was in the chair at the time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

I'm certainly prepared to sign it as the chair of the committee.

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

I'm not sure that Mr. Bachand wishes to--

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

It will be hard for me to apologize for what I did.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

What was that?

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

It would be very difficult for me to apologize for what I did. I didn't have a choice. There was not even discussion. There was no discussion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

There was no discussion.