National Defence Committee on Dec. 4th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Okay, we'll get that worked out.

Go ahead, Ms. Black.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Just to reiterate what Mr. Lunney said earlier, coming also from British Columbia I think there are a number of issues, not just the one he mentioned, which was the possibility of someone entering from the coast to do harm to people. Another use for surveillance is for the whole issue of people trafficking and also for the huge problem in Canada, and particularly in British Columbia, of drug smuggling. So to hear that surveillance is being cut back is a real concern to people in my province, for sure, which has one of the longer coastlines.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you.

We're ready to move on. I just want to be very clear what--

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I have just one other comment.

Nothing is being cut back in terms of surveillance. A decision, when it comes, if it comes, is going to take into account the requirements of the Canadian Forces, meaning maintainability and doing the job, which is surveillance. It's going to take into account the best use of taxpayer dollars, and it's going to take into account the regional industrial impact.

So it's not an easy decision that's being contemplated, but it's reality.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

That's your reality.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

The reality is that a decision has to be made, and it will take into account all those things, as any decision of this magnitude has to. But surveillance has not been dropped.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

We have Mr. Bachand, for just a little one.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

The fundamental issue is whether we need costly aircraft requiring pilots and crews to carry out surveillance. This is quite an important issue. I have always been a staunch defender of new technology and unmanned aerial vehicles. I think it would cost much less to maintain that kind of surveillance fleet. I simply wanted to add that.

We have had a discussion about submarines. Part of the rationale for having submarines was that they would be used to carry out surveillance in the Far North. However, that could be done with a fleet of unmanned aircraft.

For the time being, I want to stick with the suggestion I've made. Let's do a review of the Aurora to see whether things are going well or not. If a change occurs in the meantime, we can always add the other part that was suggested earlier.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you all for your input.

We'll have Mr. Coderre to wrap up, and then we can move on to a vote.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I have no problem with doing it that way. We need to consider the situation. Of course, for my friend, Laurie, and myself, it's not the same.

Money has already been spent. This affects even the Canadian aerospace industry and specific jobs in Nova Scotia and the Maritimes. I put some questions to the Minister, but I wasn't satisfied with his answers. In my opinion, in light of what we've seen, this kind of request is justified.

I would ask that the motion be put to a vote, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

So the motion now reads....

Does somebody want to read that for me to make sure we all understand what it says?

Go ahead, Mr. Clerk.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Samy Agha]

In English it reads as follows:That the Standing Committee on National Defence ask the Auditor General to include in the mandate proposed by the Committee (and approved by the AG) for the audit of the Government of Canada's defence procurement process, the CP-140 Aurora surveillance plane program.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

We had talked about “include” because that matches the French.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

But it does say “include” in the first sentence. I think we're just missing a comma. We can make it read as follows:That the Standing Committee on National Defence ask the Auditor General to include in the mandate proposed by the Committee, (and approved by the AG) for the audit of the Government of Canada’s defence procurement process, the CP-140 Aurora surveillance plane program.

Okay?

Good. Thank you.

And in French?

[The Clerk]

The motion reads as follows:

Il est d’avis que le Comité permanent de la Défense Nationale demande à la Vérificatrice Générale d’inclure au mandat proposé (et accepté par la VG) par notre comité quant à la vérification du processus d’acquisition du Gouvernement Canadien en matière de Défense Nationale que soit inclus le programme des avions de surveillance Aurora CP-140.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I am requesting a recorded vote, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Are we ready for the question?

(Motion as amended agreed to: yeas 10; nays 0)

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you very much.

The meeting is adjourned.