National Defence Committee on June 1st, 2009

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I agree with the comments.

I've talked to the ARKTOS people a couple of times. It's a great piece of kit, but it's not appropriate for them to come here and sell the committee the kit so that the committee can tell DND to buy the kit. It's not appropriate, and we wouldn't support that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Go ahead, Mr. Bagnell.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I don't have a problem with their not wasting committee time. I don't know if the clerk could set up an informal meeting, but I would like to see them, and I'll tell you why. They say here that they've had discussions with departmental officials regarding the Canadian government's plans to build a fleet of Arctic offshore patrol ships. And of course it would be great to have local purchasing, but we had a witness of a small shipbuilding industry before another committee, actually, and they said the government wasn't talking to all of them about building those ships in Canada. They were upset because they were not getting talked to. And this company says they are getting talked to.

So I think it's federally relevant. I don't have to be in a committee meeting, but if there were a meeting set up so that any of us who want to could meet with them, that would be good for me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Mr. Hawn, you have the floor.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

ARKTOS is happy to come to talk to anybody. They were in to talk to me a couple of times about a year ago. We made some contacts for them through the department, saying “Here's who you talk to. Go fill your boots.” They came back a couple of weeks ago, and they had had discussions with the department. There's interest in the capability their piece of gear has. But to me, that's where it belongs.

But ARKTOS would be happy to come to anybody and give them a briefing on their kit, because it's good stuff. I just don't think it's proper use of the committee's time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you.

The clerk will answer the request. In your answer, you could tell them that Mr. Bagnell is very interested in having a meeting with them. That could be done.

So that's it for this letter.

Your comments on our trip to the Arctic were very pertinent. I would like to encourage us to ask members of all parties to talk to their whips by the end of the session. We submitted a budget that was approved by the appropriate people—the Liaison Committee—and then the budget was slashed. You remember the discussions with the whips of each party. So I would urge you to discuss it again with the party whips. If not, for the trip to be approved, we will have to submit another budget to the Liaison Committee.

Mr. Harris.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Can somebody help me with this process? I gather from what you're saying that somehow or other the four party whips got together and collectively decided that this wasn't on. Are you sure that's what happened, or did the government say that they weren't making money available for this particular trip?

I talked to my whip, and my whip said yes, sure, no problem. I don't know about anybody else. This decision doesn't seem to me to be with the whips collectively. It seems to me that it's a government decision.

Can someone clarify that, please? I'm getting the impression that somehow or other if the Liberal, NDP, and BQ whips say yea, then we're going to the Arctic, but I'm not sure that's the case. Can someone straighten me out on that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Mr. Wilfert.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Chairman, our whip had no problem either, but it's the Liaison Committee. All these chairs get together. I've been at that. They say it's easier to figure out how to elect a Pope than it is to figure out how these people do their job. In the end, out of the blue, they cut it. But it is the Liaison Committee that does it. I wouldn't hang it all on the whips.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

I was there, and the budget was approved there. A couple of weeks after, we were told that we must respect the argument that they have.

Mr. Wilfert.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Our whip said he had no difficulty.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Paul Cardegna]

I may be able to offer clarification.

A standing committee of Parliament needs two things to travel: it needs a budget approved by the Liaison Committee, and it needs an order of the House of Commons. We received the budget approved by the Liaison Committee, but we never received a House order. I don't know the discussions, but we were told that the House leaders—and presumably the whips were onside as well—had decided that if half the committee travelled, which would have brought our budget under $100,000, we would have received our House order.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

How do we make the appropriate inquiry to find out in the end who made this decision?

[The Clerk]

It would be at the whip or House leader level.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I guess this isn't the Senate, where the committees have their own power to approve their own budget. We'd like to go there. But at the end of the day, could we find that out? I think it would be relevant. Now we're talking about House leaders, we're talking about whips. I personally didn't talk to the House leader. It was the whip who said he was very supportive.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I don't know who, and I'm not accusing anybody of anything, but my information was that it was the whips, and that's plural. I don't know whether it was all four, or three out of four. My information was that the whips, because of the desire to keep costs under control, said a maximum of $100,000. I'm not prepared to call anybody anything. That's the information that we have on this side.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

If you can, speak to your individual whip and come back to the committee and then we'll know.

Merci beaucoup. See you tomorrow.

The 22 ^nd meeting is now adjourned.