Evidence of meeting #38 for National Defence in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nunavik.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michael Gordon  Vice-President, Economic Development, Makivik Corporation
Daniel Ricard  Economic Development Officer, Economic Development, Makivik Corporation

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Maxime Bernier

Welcome everybody.

I would like to call to order the 38th meeting of the Standing Committee on National Defence, in accordance with Standing Order 108 and the motion adopted by this committee on February 23, 2009. We continue our study of Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic.

We have with us some witnesses from the Makivik Corporation, Mr. Michael Gordon and Mr. Daniel Ricard. Welcome.

You will have five to eight minutes for your presentation, and after that members of the committee will ask you questions.

Thank you for being with us.

Mr. Gordon.

9:10 a.m.

Michael Gordon Vice-President, Economic Development, Makivik Corporation

Thank you.

Good morning, everyone. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen of the committee, for giving us the chance to appear in front of you today to speak about Arctic sovereignty.

I am from Kuujjuaq, a town in Nunavik, but I grew up with the federal day school system, so my French isn't that good. It pre-dated the provincial school system, so I will need the help of the translator.

Makivik is the organization mandated to protect the rights and interests of the Nunavik Inuit under the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement and under the 2008 Nunavik Inuit Land Claims Agreement, which is known as NILCA. That is an agreement between the Canadian government, the Nunavut government, and the Inuit of Nunavik and Labrador, which provides Nunavik Inuit with ownership of approximately 7,000 offshore islands in Hudson Bay, Hudson Strait, and Ungava Bay.

As you can gather just by hearing that we have over 7,000 islands, Nunavik is a very large place. In fact, after Nunavut, Nunavik is the second largest Inuit territory in Canada in terms of both geography and population. Inuit constitute the overwhelming majority of the region's population. Our shoreline is over 17,000 kilometres, and Nunavik's land mass covers 660,000 square kilometres, or approximately the top one-third of Quebec.

Nunavik is part of the Canadian Arctic. It has predominantly an Arctic landscape. A large portion of its territory lies above the tree line, and seven of the fourteen communities are actually located north of the 60th parallel. We are isolated. There are no roads connecting any of our communities to the main grid. The Hudson Strait, which provides waterway access to the heart of the Canadian Arctic, flows right by our shores. These facts are particularly noteworthy given that the federal government appears to have decided to exclude Nunavik from its northern strategy.

We are not second-class Inuit. Nunavik's exclusion from the northern strategy is based on artificial boundaries, not geographical or social ones. We are Inuit, just like our cousins in Nunavut, and we want the Canadian government to recognize this simple reality, in the same way it recognized Quebec as a nation. We request that the Canadian government clearly acknowledge that the northern strategy applies to Nunavik to the same extent as to other regions in Canada's Arctic.

As for the issue of assertion of Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic, we feel that the federal government seems to have relegated this objective to the establishment of a military presence in the north. In this context, if we were to be asked whether we think that National Defence currently has the capacity to adequately provide for our security and protection in the north, our short answer is no.

I'll bring up a few points to back this up. A good example of it is that the government cannot carry out effective search and rescue operations in our regions, and vessels must operate in an environment where there are no safe anchorages or safe harbours. We would argue that despite its legal claims on its Arctic territory, in many areas the government lacks in a practical sense the means to fully exercise its sovereignty in the Arctic.

This problem becomes even more acute because Canada is faced with increasing pressure to open up the Northwest Passage. Ships will eventually go through, one way or another. There is already a critical need for additional marine infrastructure and services, and this will increase significantly in the coming years.

On a positive note, Canada's response to this situation can provide significant opportunities for northern residents and pave the way for new partnerships between governments and Inuit organizations such as Makivik. With NILCA, we have already proven our capacity to negotiate win-win agreements with our neighbours and governments.

Our shores and many of our airports are unprotected. Anybody can land by sea in Nunavik and remain undetected for long periods of time. If they were to be detected, it would most probably be by a hunter or a ranger patrol.

Another point relates to the Canadian government's being unable to carry out effective search and rescue missions in the North. It usually takes as much as five days for CFB Trenton and the rangers' base operations in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu to authorize a search party of the rangers. When a resident is lost in the north, a community will not wait that long to start a search. If a resident is lost at sea, people in the community have access to a large community-owned boat, which was funded by Makivik and the Kativik regional government, while the operations are funded by the municipalities.

When authorization is finally given to start search and rescue missions, it is usually the Canadian Rangers who are deployed. We feel that the rangers do a good job, because they quite often resort to regional expertise, such as hunters who know the prevailing winds and the currents. The rangers also have a positive impact on our communities, and we are most appreciative of the services they carry out, and more specifically, the training they provide under the junior rangers program.

Unfortunately for our needs, the rangers are under-equipped. They have no snowmobiles, four-wheelers, or boats that can be used in search and rescue missions. The rangers have to use their own machines to go searching.

Another point is that there is a serious lack of safe anchorages in Nunavik. Cargo volumes and vessel sizes are both increasing. The result is that ships have to anchor further and further out. This is a situation that increasingly exposes them to poor weather and dangerous conditions. This problem has to be resolved, because our northern communities depend on organizations such as Makivik and shipping subsidiaries of Makivik such as NEAS to deliver goods.

There is also a growing number of cruise ships in the north. In fact, another subsidiary of Makivik is Cruise North Expeditions. It brought about 800 tourists to the north this summer. Should an accident on one of these cruise ships ever arise, we feel that effective and speedy rescue missions could not be carried out. This would most certainly have an adverse affect on Canada's northern tourism as a whole, since our ships visit both Nunavik and Nunavut.

At present, we need suitable ports, harbours, and terminals, along with more navigational aids and marine mobile communication services. Our waters are uncharted, for the most part, and so we need hydrographic charts to map our uncharted waters. Makivik Corporation operates a new subsidiary that provides some of these services to northern residents and government departments, and if there were any money to be put toward more hydrographic charts, we'd be able to provide some of those services.

As a result of the federal-provincial program, Nunavik's 14 communities now benefit from basic marine infrastructure designed to protect fishermen from the perils of the sea. We are most grateful for the contributions we have received and the positive impact they have had on the local economy and the safety of our residents and hunters. We'd like to point out that Makivik's construction division built every one of those 14 marine infrastructures.

The time is right for an opportunity to work on the construction of a deep-sea port. If such a deep-sea port were built in Nunavik it would allow the Department of National Defence to carry out military missions from Nunavik. It would also create significant economic opportunities for our region and help decrease the high cost of living.

We feel that infrastructure projects of this type in the north have been evaluated in terms of how they will enhance Canada's Arctic sovereignty, and not simply on the basis of their commercial feasibility, as would be the case in the south. Arctic sovereignty must be defined in more operational terms. It needs to be carried out with the help of government programs designed to meet the changing northern realities, and delivered in partnership with regional organizations.

Arctic sovereignty along with the northern strategy should be designed to allow northern regions, including Nunavik, to partner with the Government of Canada in meeting its military and socio-economic development opportunities.

Thank you very much.

I guess I worked myself into a sweat presenting this to you.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Maxime Bernier

Now I will give the floor to Mr. Wilfert.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, gentlemen, for coming. You did a very good job, sweat or no sweat.

The Inuit of Canada and the crown signed a partnership accord back in May 2005. Are you a part of that agreement?

9:20 a.m.

Vice-President, Economic Development, Makivik Corporation

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

That was to lead up to the Inuit Circumpolar Council and the Inuit action plan of February 2007.

You indicated that you're not part of the northern strategy of the government. On what basis do you think you were excluded? You make a very good point that Inuit are Inuit across the north. They have very similar issues in dealing with climate change, changing patterns in the north, social development, economic development, etc. Why do you think you have been excluded?

9:25 a.m.

Vice-President, Economic Development, Makivik Corporation

Michael Gordon

Daniel is going to help me on this question.

The northern strategy is mainly geared toward Nunavut and the western Arctic. Labrador and Nunavik have been excluded from it mainly because we fall within the provinces. We fall under the Quebec government, and some of the programs offered would be offered through the northern strategy. Some of them might go through the provincial government, so we wouldn't fall under that northern strategy.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

How do you see the role of the provinces, whether it's Quebec or Newfoundland and Labrador, in terms of your situation and interaction with them and the federal government?

9:25 a.m.

Daniel Ricard Economic Development Officer, Economic Development, Makivik Corporation

Right now Quebec plays a major role in housing, for example. As you know, right now in Nunavut and the Northwest Territories public housing is basically the Canadian government's responsibility. In Quebec, public housing falls under a federal-provincial agreement. So in this case the province plays a major role.

To go back to your question about why we feel we are excluded from the northern strategy, if you take the document that was distributed in the summer by Minister Strahl, it basically explains what the northern strategy is all about. On page 18 there is a map that shows the resource knowledge--the minerals that are in Canada's north. We don't see anything here in Nunavik, yet we do have mines in Nunavik.

As Michael just said, we feel that because we're part of a province we are excluded from the northern strategy.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

It seems to fall short. I'll read this following statement, Mr. Chair:

But the North needs new attention. New opportunities are emerging across the Arctic, and new challenges from other shores. Our Government will bring forward an integrated northern strategy focusing on strengthening Canada’s sovereignty, protecting our environmental heritage, promoting economic and social development, and improving and devolving governance, so that northerners have greater control over their destinies.

Those are the words from the Speech from the Throne on October 16, 2007. We seem to have fallen quite short. The aspirations, I think we'd all agree, are wonderful, but it's show me the beef here. They haven't delivered in this case. It's the northern strategy focusing on the north, bringing all people.... It doesn't say only parts of the north.

What have you done from the time that this was enunciated in terms of trying, either with your provincial government or with the federal government, to bridge this glaring gap?

9:25 a.m.

Vice-President, Economic Development, Makivik Corporation

Michael Gordon

At every opportunity, our president, Pita Aatami, president of Makivik Corporation, tried to bring this up with the government through the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami. I believe you had presentations from them this week.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Yes.

9:25 a.m.

Vice-President, Economic Development, Makivik Corporation

Michael Gordon

We've also tried to use the Quebec government, to see if they could push on our behalf to get us included in the northern strategy.

But also, provincially we're working hand in hand, hopefully, with the Quebec government on their plan nord. So to that extent, we're making a lot of headway with the provincial government, but not so with the federal government.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Clearly, the federal government has responsibilities in areas. You talk about search and rescue and the failure on the issue of ports. Obviously, in terms of sovereignty, if in fact we are going to exert our sovereignty, we have to have the ability to do so, and if we don't have those in place, that's clearly not a provincial responsibility. That's clearly the role of the federal government.

9:25 a.m.

A voice

Exactly.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

What suggestions would you have for us to deal with the issues of search and rescue? What would be the best vehicles to improve search and rescue in the north?

9:25 a.m.

Vice-President, Economic Development, Makivik Corporation

Michael Gordon

I'll try to answer that.

Many of the search and rescues that take place in the north aren't well done. We had a case where we had a family on a freighter canoe, a 22-foot freighter canoe, leaving my village and going to another village. There was a problem with their motor. It was not bad weather, it was a problem with the motor, and the Hercules search and rescue plane searched for it.

There were a couple of ships that came to look for the canoe, but they wouldn't listen to the people of the region. They would not listen to the hunters who know about the currents of the Ungava Bay, because it goes from west to east in a circular fashion. They would not listen to us and they would only search where the last seen point was. We didn't have the capacity to go further out into sea and look for them.

On another point, in Nunavut one of our subsidiaries, Air Inuit Ltd., our airline, was chartered by the municipality of Igloolik to look for Mr. Kunuk. I forgot his first name, but he's the father of Zacharias Kunuk, the producer of Atanarjuat. This man, an 81-year-old man, had not returned from camping for one month, even though there were many search and rescue planes that came by, the Hercules. After they chartered our Air Inuit plane, Air Inuit finally found the man. He was fine. He just couldn't get back home since his motor broke down as well.

There are things on which we can work together with the Department of National Defence and the search and rescue portion of it, but they just won't listen to us. The land, the predominant winds, the currents, they're just different from what they've learned about.

I don't know if I'm even answering your question.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

That's helpful. It obviously shows it's better to be a good listener than a talker around those issues.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Maxime Bernier

Merci beaucoup, monsieur Gordon.

I will now turn the floor over to Mr. Bachand.

9:30 a.m.

Bloc

Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Merci.

Monsieur Gordon, you'll need your translation device, because I'll be talking in French.

9:30 a.m.

Vice-President, Economic Development, Makivik Corporation

9:30 a.m.

Bloc

Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

M'entendez-vous?

Is it translated?

Are you getting the English interpretation? Good.

First of all, I would like you to convey my best wishes to Pita Atami. As you know, I was involved in the Indian Affairs and Northern Development file from 1993 to 2000. I do think that you have an excellent lobbyist in the person of Guy St-Julien. He was one of my colleagues at the time and he is a staunch defender of your position.

I'd like to come back to the seven villages in Northern Quebec that have been excluded from the Northern Strategy. I have a hard time understanding why these villages located between the 60th and 62nd parallels have been excluded. Other islands located much further to the south, including the Sanikiluaq Islands, known as the Belcher Islands in English, Akimiski Island and even some located along the 52nd parallel, have been included in the Northern Strategy. Geographically speaking, something isn't right. You don't have to have a PhD in geography to see, with the help of a map, that villages north of the 60th parallel are being left out, while islands near the 52nd parallel are being included in the strategy.

I would also like to remind the committee, Mr. Chair, that Quebec's National Assembly unanimously decided to ask the federal government to include these seven villages in Northern Quebec in the Northern Strategy.

I would also like you to explain to me why the Sanikiluaq Islands and Akimiski Island, which border Quebec, were designated as part of Nunavut. From a geographical standpoint, this makes no sense. I even recall travelling to these islands to demand that they be given back to Quebec. Not only were they not given back to Quebec, a decision was made to exclude some Quebec communities from the Northern Strategy, while these Nunavut territories were included, despite the fact that Nunavut is located approximately 2,000 kilometres away.

While you're explaining that to me, I'd also like you to answer the following question: what do you lose by not being included in the Northern Strategy? Are we putting too much into the Northern Strategy?

I have other questions, but I will let you answer these two first.

9:35 a.m.

Vice-President, Economic Development, Makivik Corporation

Michael Gordon

Thank you, Mr. Bachand.

I guess my presentation wasn't that clear. Thank you for the question. It's very enlightening, I think, for the members of the committee.

Nunavik is situated north of the 55th parallel. All of our communities, the 14 communities, are north of the 55th parallel. Seven of our communities are above the 60th parallel, and between the 50th and 60th there are seven others. But we're all excluded; the whole territory is excluded from the northern strategy.

You're correct about Sanikiluaq and the Belcher Islands. Our cousins live there, very close cousins to the Inuit of Nunavik, especially that of Kuujjuarapik and Umiujaq, and they're included.

I guess INAC would be the best department to answer those questions, but we're excluded mainly based on having been or being part of a province, within a province.

You might want to add to that, Daniel. I'm making it too short.

9:35 a.m.

Economic Development Officer, Economic Development, Makivik Corporation

Daniel Ricard

If you're asking us what we think we don't have, because we're part of the northern strategy, we look at some of the recent commitments put forward by Minister Strahl in the August press conference on the northern strategy. It does show here that in terms of the recent commitments, the Canadian government decided to establish a deep-water berthing and fueling facility in Nanisivik, so this is good, obviously.

We're just saying we obviously wouldn't mind having the same type of thing in Nunavik, especially for all kinds of military and economic reasons, as Michael said in his presentation.

I would say it mostly has to do with infrastructure. We have an awful lot of stuff already. As you know, the INAC people have talked about the fact that they now have a Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency. We are not excluded because we can refer to the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the regions of Quebec. Being Nunavik, part of Quebec, we have access to that agency. We feel, however, we could probably be excluded from major infrastructure projects, such as a deep-water port.

9:35 a.m.

Bloc

Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Another reality, Mr. Ricard, is that some mines are excluded from the Northern Strategy, whereas all of the other mines... While we have details about the mines, two have been omitted, namely the Raglan Mine and the Canadian Royalties mine, both of which are located north of the 60th parallel. These two mines are not on the list. As I see it, this is another example of an injustice toward the Inuit of Nunavik and toward Quebeckers.