National Defence Committee on Nov. 5th, 2009

[Daniel Ricard]

We were just talking about that earlier. On page 18 of the same document, mention is made of the mineral resources in the north, but there is nothing said about Nunavik's mineral resources. Therefore, we have to wonder if these resources are included or not.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Does the government of Nunavut contribute as much money as Quebec does to the Inuit in the Far North? Does Nunavut have an easier time of it than Nunavik, given that it receives money from the federal government while Nunavik does not?

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

You have 15 seconds.

[Daniel Ricard]

We have not looked at how much the federal government contributes to Nunavut versus what it gives to Nunavik. That's something we should do.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

We certainly come out on the losing end.

[Daniel Ricard]

I cannot comment on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you, Mr. Bachand.

Now we'll give the floor to Ms. Crowder.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Thank you.

I want to thank the witnesses for coming today. I'm filling in for Jack Harris, who normally sits on this committee.

I just want to continue the line of questioning my colleagues have started around why Nunavik is excluded from the northern strategy.

I know a document was passed out called “Delineation of Canada's North: An Examination of the North-South Relationship in Canada”, by Stats Canada, and it's interesting, because they are talking about the fact that many times the convenient political boundaries ignore similarities in climate and physical attributes, economic structure, and population settlement patterns between the territories and northern parts of Labrador, Quebec, and so on.

The map they attached I think is a really good visual representation of the northern transition line, and you can see that Nunavik is clearly included in what Stats Canada is looking at as a northern transition line. Have you had any reasonable explanation about why there is a difference between what one department is talking about in terms of delineation of the north and what another department is talking about?

I think you and I had a brief conversation in advance that the aboriginal affairs committee is currently looking at northern economic development, and to date you haven't been included. You haven't been invited. You haven't been given any notice about appearing before that committee. Can you comment on that?

[Michael Gordon]

I think a lot of it stems from the name of our region being so close to the name of Nunavut. Maybe people in elected positions think it's the same thing, that Nunavut encompasses the whole north. That's what I suspect. But our territory is called Nunavik, with a v-i-k at the end.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

I think it's an interesting point, though, because when I've travelled north what we often hear is about the lack of understanding that people south of 60 have about differences, but also there are some threads that connect the north.

[Michael Gordon]

Exactly.

I'm just looking at that map. The islands that Mr. Bachand referred to are way below the 55th parallel, just to the left of Nunavik.

From the government there, I don't know if you have received a reasonable explanation. The main one is that we're in the province of Quebec, and when you paint the province of Quebec a different colour from say Newfoundland or Ontario, it includes Nunavik. So that's the explanation we've come to understand from the government. As you said, it doesn't stem from.... How did they mention it in this paper? “This definition ignores similarities in climatic and physical attributes” of that area. So it's based on artificial boundaries.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

It seems difficult to think that you would be talking about a strategy that would be up here in Baffin Island and ignore Nunavik. It just doesn't make any sense. You are separated by a passage of water. There doesn't seem to be a rational explanation for it.

[Michael Gordon]

You have my vote.

I don't think there is, except that we're in the province of Quebec.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

That's not really a rational explanation, though.

Do I still have a bit of time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Three minutes.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Can I just shift gears for a minute?

I was reviewing some of the testimony that came before this committee. Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami and Nunavut Tunngavik Inc. both talked about the land claims. Of course, I pulled out the land claims implementation policy and noticed that Makivik is part of the land claims coalition. When we're talking about Arctic sovereignty, my understanding of it is that Arctic sovereignty will truly be achieved when we fully implement the land claims agreement that had been negotiated and signed in good faith. And of course we've had the Auditor General back in 2003 say that the government, INAC, cannot just implement the letter of the agreement; they must implement the spirit of the agreement.

Can you tell me how you think full land claims implementation would actually help establish sovereignty in the north, in Nunavik, in particular?

[Daniel Ricard]

As you know, right now our land claims agreements are settled: James Bay and NILCA, the Nunavik Inuit Land Claims Agreement. We are basically in the midst of implementing all this right now.

I would say that on many of the issues right now that we've negotiated with the Quebec and Canadian governments, it's going along pretty well. I would say that the major hurdle right now would be housing. Even though we have a good housing agreement with Canada and Quebec, there's still a big housing shortage. Even though there are, let's say, 915 houses left to be built in 14 communities, if you put 915 houses in 14 communities, that has quite a big economic impact. In some small communities, building 40 houses would have a major social and economic impact on the community.

So in that sense I would say once everything is implemented you would probably achieve a higher degree of economic development.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Still, from Makivik's perspective, they don't have some of the same issues that some of the other partners around the land claims coalition agreements have had. It seems that for you housing is one of the major barriers, major stumbling blocks. That's good news.

I don't hear the buzzer going, so I just want to come back to the rangers for a second. You said in your presentation that it can be up to five days before CFB Trenton will authorize a search and rescue mission. We have all kinds of modern telecommunications technology, so why would it take five days?

[Michael Gordon]

There is a whole slew of things that have to happen before CFB Trenton can authorize a search and rescue, including how long the person's been away from home or has not returned from hunting. The police in the region have to be notified and then a few things have to happen before CFB Trenton is authorized to go ahead with it.

[Daniel Ricard]

Mr. Chair...

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Fifteen seconds, Mr. Ricard.

[Daniel Ricard]

Basically, we feel there is a lack of communication between Trenton and Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu. Why would it take five days? You could probably ask the same questions to those people.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you very much.

Now I will give the floor to Mr. Hawn.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you both for coming.

I do have to correct one statement that you made. We did not recognize the province of Quebec as a nation. We recognized the Québécois as a nation, in a cultural and linguistic sense.

I do have to say I was really pleased to hear Mr. Bachand defending Canadian sovereignty so hard in the province of Quebec. I appreciate that.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

I want the money.