National Defence Committee on Feb. 25th, 2009

[Colonel, Retired) D. Ethell (Chair, Mental Health Advisory Committee, Veterans Affairs Canada and Department of National Defence, Department of National Defence]

Sir, I've been around the forces a long time--and I don't work for DND or VAC; I'm a volunteer. I now chair the Mental Health Advisory Committee. In the past I had two legs; now I have to grow a third one, because the RCMP last week came on board.

The mental health OSI--let's just stay with OSI for the time being--has come light years from where we were 10 years ago when Grenier appeared before the Canadian Forces Advisory Council and explained what OSI and OSSIS were. And that was built into the Neary report , which led to the new Veterans Charter, which the Canadian Forces are reaping the benefits from.

The point I'm making, which you brought out and which General Jaeger brought out, is that it doesn't happen right away.

I'm not a clinician. I looked in the mirror five years after I got out and said, like many of them, “I have a problem”. I had seen some very horrendous things. The kids coming out of Afghanistan or coming back from Zaire, or wherever, six months or a year from now may look in the mirror or may talk to one of the OSSIS people and say, “Who can I talk to?” Then they'll be going to the professionals: the clinicians, the psychiatrists, the psychologists, and so forth.

There are not only the OTSSCs, but there are the OSI clinics from Veterans Affairs. It's a dual process. In fact, it's a crossover between the two, and that's being organized between the two departments, thank God, where a soldier can walk into either clinic, and the same with a veteran. There are veterans coming out of the woodwork, going back to Korea, who have said, “ I have a problem”. The reason for that is the publicity for PTSD and OSI.

I'm not saying this because these three people are in uniform, but the mental health thinking--the facilities and so forth that you've heard about today--has come a tremendously long way from where it was 8 or 10 years ago. There's not only a cultural change, but certainly a physical change to the benefit of the troops and their families, and I haven't heard that mentioned yet--the families--because that's also in the mandate of either DND or VAC, but it's certainly being considered.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you, sir.

We now go over to the government side, and it looks like it will be the wrap-up here.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you all for being here.

I'll perhaps start by saying that I can't let Mr. Bachand throw out false numbers. The report the ombudsman came out with had 31 recommendations, 20 of which were fully or partially implemented and 11 of which were not implemented--that's the number. You can judge that. We've talked about glasses being half full and half empty. You can say that's half full or half empty, your choice.

You talked about the two intentions of DND. General Jaeger, is it the intention of DND, ideally, to fill that glass?

[BGen Hilary Jaeger]

It's always the intention of DND to meet the needs of all of our patients.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Realistically, will we ever get a glass like that full?

[BGen Hilary Jaeger]

When my magic wand comes back from the third line.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

There you go. Will it be natural for media and those who are part of that glass that's not full, however legitimate their cases are--and they are legitimate--and for other people in government or the media to focus on whatever that number is? If it's the top 10%, 5%, will it be natural for them to focus on that and build cases, publicity, or whatever you want out of that?

[BGen Hilary Jaeger]

They are very compelling stories. It's natural to pay attention to them. In fact, actually we're quite glad when people bring people back to our attention, because then we can try again.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

So we will always focus on the part, naturally, that is not quite full.

Master Corporal Paul Franklin was one of the people who came before the committee, and I think everybody knows his story. He has a lot of experience, not just in the CF system, but he has a lot of exposure to other countries' systems of dealing with disabled, injured soldiers--severely disabled in his case. One of the things he said was that clearly more needs to be done. There will always be more that needs to be done. But one of the things he said was that, given that, the CF in Canada treats their injured soldiers far better than any other country that he had visited. Would you agree with that?

[BGen Hilary Jaeger]

Well, I'm very glad to hear that. I actually haven't gone down and compared benefits for benefits and care for care. We were very lucky to bring on board an experienced and senior physiatrist to head our rehabilitation program. His name is Lieutenant-Colonel Markus Besemann.

He has worked very hard to make links with all of the civilian rehabilitation programs and to talk to them about what the needs of our returning soldiers are like, to find out what they are good at and what they might need support at to get better. He's in the process of putting specialized teams at seven locations across the country. We're very happy with the work that he's doing. This fellow has a really good systems way of thinking and we're lucky to have him.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

As a professional medical person, you deal in medical things. As a professional military person, you deal in military things. The combination of those is unlike things that most organizations have to deal with.

In your professional judgment as a medical and military professional, what is our biggest obstacle to doing better, to filling the glass?

[BGen Hilary Jaeger]

Does the air force understand the concept of a centre of gravity, Mr. Hawn?

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Absolutely.

[An hon. member]

We all understand it.

[BGen Hilary Jaeger]

Oh, good. We've been in this committee a long time.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Mine's getting lower.

[BGen Hilary Jaeger]

My centre of gravity is having the right mix of people with the right skills and experience in the right place at the right time. I'm talking about health human resources.

That's my biggest challenge. I have smart and really committed people. If I could just make sure I have enough of them in the right places.... They love the work they do because ethically it feels right to these folks. They love working in our system. We just need a few more in certain places.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Colonel Ethell, from the professional soldier's point of view, how would you answer that?

[Col D. Ethell]

I would answer that by saying that the newly formed Mental Health Advisory Committee, on behalf of three departments, is looking afield--outside of those departments. They're looking at academic research and practitioners. We've brought aboard external experts, PhDs, from the University of Toronto, Simon Fraser University--Dean Cheryl Regher, Bill Wilkerson, Dr. Kates and so forth--to solicit their thoughts and recommendations as to how we can move forward with regard to not just OSI but mental health, the whole thing. It's significant experience and knowledge in the field of mental health and social support, strong national networks across the country, access to universities. OSI is not the purview of the military alone. There are all sorts of societies out there. Probably half of you in this room have had a touch of PTSD--a car crash or something, or riding in the back of a C-130 or a fighter.

It goes on and on. That's the challenge that has been given to us by the champions of mental health in the departments: General Semianiw; ADM Brian Ferguson, from VAC; and Deputy Commissioner Peter Martin from the RCMP. That's where we're going to go.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thanks very much, and I want to thank all of you for being here today and answering the questions.

Colonel Ethell, it's always a pleasure to have our most decorated peacekeeper in front of us. Keep up your good work.

And to the rest of you, thank you very much.

The meeting is adjourned