National Defence Committee on Feb. 25th, 2009

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Since December, or even since September, when the minister had the report, have you observed any actions taken to address the report? What was the reception or response to your report? I really want to ask you, has the response to your report been adequate, or are you concerned that another six years could go by without many of these recommendations?

The last thing I would add is that in your comments to us you said the department had indicated it was their intention to hire an additional 218 mental health professionals by the end of March 2009, and they have now extended that deadline. Knowing that it's difficult to find all the personnel, I'd still like to know how many of those 218 were hired.

[Mary McFadyen]

I don't know. That's a very good question to ask the Surgeon General when she comes.

Before we released our report, in order to be open and transparent we gave them a draft copy to comment on before it was provided to the minister. They indicated some initiatives they had intended to bring forward to try to meet the recommendations. I noticed last month and this month on the DND website there are some backgrounders on what steps they have taken towards dealing with the issue. That's where I got the information about the deadline changing to 2010.

So we applaud them for trying, but we'll see if these actually are enough to meet the intent of our recommendations to make sure that the necessary work is actually done.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Yes, it seems to me that one of your most important recommendations is that position right at the top that reports directly to the CDS. I know there are many important ones.

The other question I have is about the regular forces and the reserve forces. We had information last year, I think, that a reserve member who was injured and lost a leg got less compensation than a member in the regular forces who had the identical injury. Have those kinds of issues of inequality between members of the regular Canadian Forces and members of the reserve forces--we're now having a higher percentage of reservists serving in Afghanistan than we've had in any other war--been resolved?

[Mary McFadyen]

With respect to the one about insurance--your leg not being worth as much if you are a reserve forces member as opposed to being a regular forces member--when we released our report we made a recommendation for equal treatment. The minister, I believe, brought forward a proposal to Treasury Board. I'm not sure of the status of that proposal. That would also be a very good question for Canadian Forces personnel when they come.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

What about other inequities? Are you aware of any?

[Mary McFadyen]

As to other inequities, I believe that in the report we gave them a year to make the changes to the regulations to ensure fair treatment. So in a year we will follow up to see what was done.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thanks very much.

[Mary McFadyen]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

We'll go to Mr. Blaney.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mrs. McFadyen, I would like to welcome you back to the Standing Committee on National Defence. This is our first meeting on the study that we began last spring in 2008. Sometimes, delays are good, because we will be able to incorporate the recommendations from your report published in December 2008 into our study. This will give new momentum to your recommendations, and I am sure that our researcher, Mr. Cox, will be very pleased.

Something new and exciting has happened over the past year: the number of operational stress injury treatment clinics set up by National Defence and Veterans Affairs will increase from five to ten this spring. So, as you indicated in your report, there have been improvements.

I would like to come back to your report. You said that 13 of the 31 recommendations made in your initial 2002 report were taken into account by DND. You also pointed out that the challenge of post-traumatic stress disorder is linked to intensive use of our Canadian Forces during various missions, in particular the Afghanistan mission, for which you state that our Forces are stretched to the breaking point.

Something else that I appreciated in your report: you mention that it is not only military personnel who are affected, but also their family members. You pointed out that there is no coordinated approach to help families living with someone suffering from PTSD. I am sure that we will be taking this into account in our study, because it has also been raised by witnesses who have appeared before the committee.

However, what surprised me in your presentation is this: you state that in many respects, the Canadian government, the Canadian Forces and DND are faced with what you call an generational challenge. Could you explain what you mean by this when you refer to the improvements to be made to assisting victims of post-traumatic stress disorder?

[Mary McFadyen]

Our intention, by making this comment, was to underscore the fact that symptoms of operational stress injury do not necessarily appear immediately upon the victim's return from a mission in Afghanistan. They may appear up to one or two years later.

Right now we're not necessarily sure how big a problem this is going to be, and I think it's important that it be addressed so we can deal with it.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

It would appear that approximately 20% of military members who return from missions experience mental health problems. Are you saying that because of the scope of the mission in Afghanistan, the challenge is that much greater? Is that what you mean when you talk about a generational challenge, or are there other aspects? For example, the fact that the military is losing health care professionals because of their age or because they are retiring.

[Mary McFadyen]

What we mean is that this is the first time our Canadian Forces have seen active combat since the Korean War, and more than 8,500 people—for example, from Petawawa—have participated in this mission. I don't know necessarily if we know the extent yet of what they will be suffering. It is important that we will be able to assist them, to make sure as a country—they have served our country well—that they are taken care of properly.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

One thing is for sure, as we have seen, the after-effects can last for some time.

We see that there number of challenges. A member of the military, Mr. Paul Franklin, appeared before our committee and told us that the way in which the Canadian Forces supports sufferers of PTSD could be improved. He had studied what is being done in other countries as part of similar programs. In his opinion, Canada leads the pack and provides services that are superior to those in other countries.

Do you agree with him?

[Mary McFadyen]

Yes, we agree with Paul Franklin. In our report, we stated the following.

Canada is a world leader, but that doesn't mean there isn't more work to be done to ensure the fair treatment of our Canadian Forces members.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Absolutely. To meet a challenge, political commitment and material and financial resources are required. In your opinion, which of these three elements is the most important in helping us make progress or truly meet the challenge with regard to what you stated concerning greater involvement in Afghanistan? Which of these criteria, in your opinion, is the most important? You are aware of the situation. Would you say that political commitment, material resources or financial resources are the most important? Which of these appear to you to be the most essential at this time?

[Mary McFadyen]

All the recommendations that we made in our report are very important, but I think the main problem is the overall lack of leadership.

There needs to be a high-level person determining where the money should go, where the training and education should be. I think that will trickle down and help with the cultural stigma that's been there, making sure the money, the resources, are spent properly.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

So it is really leadership.

[Mary McFadyen]

Yes.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

That ends the opening round. Now we will go into a five-minute round.

We'll start with Ms. Neville.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you very much, and thank you for your presentation.

I'm new to this process. I was going to ask you one line of questioning, but I want to pick up on something a colleague down the road asked.

You indicated that the release of the report was held up. Could you just clarify that again? You completed it when?

[Mary McFadyen]

We provided it to the department in July 2008. What we do is make sure they have reviewed our recommendations and have had a chance to comment before we provide it to the minister. We provided it to the minister in September; however, there was an election call.

As an ombudsman's office, our role is to be neutral and impartial. We make observations on things, and we made a determination that it was appropriate to wait until after the election to release the report.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

That was your call.

[Mary McFadyen]

It was totally our call.