Evidence of meeting #4 for National Defence in the 40th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was report.
A recording is available from Parliament.
General Counsel, Office of the Ombudsman for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces
I believe they do use private contractors, yes.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rick Casson
Very good. You got it in.
All right. We continue with this round. We go over to Mr. Bachand and then back to the government, and that will just about do it.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
I read somewhere that the ombudsman is assisted by an advisory committee composed of several members. Is that true?
General Counsel, Office of the Ombudsman for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces
Yes, we have an advisory committee that meets twice a year to discuss broad issues affecting the office. However, this committee does not deal with individual complaints.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
How many people sit on the advisory committee, and who are they? Are they former military personnel, public servants?
General Counsel, Office of the Ombudsman for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces
I believe there are eight members: One or two from the Canadian Forces, at the chief warrant officer or captain rank, as well as a former ombudsman from Ontario. The members are from different backgrounds and we meet to discuss the policy directions of the office.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Does this advisory committee know, for example, that you are undertaking a major study like the one you presented today? Does it issue opinions on how you should conduct this study?
General Counsel, Office of the Ombudsman for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces
Yes.
General Counsel, Office of the Ombudsman for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces
It provides us with direction during the meeting. This committee was set up because when the office was created, none of the employees had any military experience. The minister thus thought that it would be a good idea and included in the ministerial directives the creation of an advisory committee.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
So it's a ministerial directive.
I would like to ask you a question on your stint as acting ombudsman. Should the role of the ombudsman be set out in the statute on National Defence in order to give this position more teeth? You have made recommendations to the Department, but I am disappointed at its response. After seven years, almost nothing has changed. In the act respecting National Defence, if the ombudsman reported to Parliament rather to the Minister, or if certain provisions stipulated that the recommendations were biding, would that help us achieve our objectives more rapidly and effectively?
General Counsel, Office of the Ombudsman for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces
The two former ombudsmen, Mr. Côté and Mr. Marin,
were both of the opinion that we needed a statute. We should be in the National Defence Act.
During my time as interim ombudsman, we were able to conduct our abilities and do our work and our investigations under the ministerial directives. I think we did a pretty good job, so they do work.
Even if we were in a statute, an ombudsman's role is only
to make recommendations, not issue directives.
So we would still have the
Same role, even if there were a legislative provision to this effect.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Unless we change the title of ombudsman for something that is more prescriptive. We could do this if we decided to amend an act or incorporate a provision. We try to use terms that will achieve our objectives. If we chose that route, you suggest that we not use the term ombudsman, because that person only makes recommendations. We would have to find another term.
General Counsel, Office of the Ombudsman for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces
Our role, like every ombudsman that exists, is to review administrative actions and to use public pressure, by appearing before committees like this, to force the organization to do the right thing.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Lévis—Bellechasse, QC
Thank you Mr. Chair.
I have three short questions for our “ombudsman.”
I would like to come back to my colleague's question concerning the treatment of persons suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. Have you seen a difference in the quality of the care giving to military members and their families, according to whether the victims are reservists or members of the regular forces?
General Counsel, Office of the Ombudsman for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces
What we observed when we did our reserve investigation was that reservists, depending on their contract--even though they had been hurt because of military duty--couldn't get the Canadian Forces to deal with them sometimes. They said they had to go to their provincial health care provider. We determined that was unfair, that if you were hurt with respect to your military duty, the Canadian Forces should be ensuring that you get proper health care.
February 25th, 2009 / 4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Lévis—Bellechasse, QC
I would like to come back to what you said concerning the importance of leadership.
In your initial report, you recommended the creation of a position of national coordinator for post-traumatic stress disorder. The Forces have a chief of military personnel and have created the position of special advisor. Is this sufficient, or do you still recommend that there will be someone who reports directly to the Chief of Staff?
General Counsel, Office of the Ombudsman for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces
The special adviser to the CMP is a new initiative. I think it was created in November 2008. My understanding of the role is that it is to deal with non-clinical issues only, such as education and training. They have done initiatives like this in the past. After our report in 2002, two special advisers were appointed and it went nowhere; nobody knew that they were around. They had an OSI steering committee, which didn't work; it fell through the cracks. I know they made that new initiative as well. So we'll see if this helps. Those are just my comments on those two initiatives right now, but we're hoping that they do reach the intent of our recommendation.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Lévis—Bellechasse, QC
How do you ensure the follow-up of the recommendations in your report? How does this usually work?
General Counsel, Office of the Ombudsman for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces
We want to give them enough time to implement the recommendations, but after a sufficient amount of time has passed, we contact them and say we're going to do a follow-up in which they tell us what they've done. Then we get a response back from them and we investigate to see if what they've said is really what they have done and if it does meet the intent of the recommendation.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Lévis—Bellechasse, QC
In such a case, in your opinion, how long would it take for the follow-up to be completed?
