Evidence of meeting #32 for National Defence in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aircraft.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Assistant Director, International General Directorate, Dassault Aviation
Do you mean right now or in a call for tenders? That would depend. It goes without saying that we are ready and willing to provide the Government of Canada with any information it may require.
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
Imagine there were a call for tender, a very comprehensive open competition. Would your bid include a fixed price?
Assistant Director, International General Directorate, Dassault Aviation
I am not, at this point, in a position and do not have the authority to answer that question. However, I can tell you that we would give it very carefully and detailed consideration. However, I am not authorized to provide an immediate commitment on the issue you raise.
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
I realize that my question is rather hypothetical since there are no plans for a "competition".
Assistant Director, International General Directorate, Dassault Aviation
Indeed.
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
Obviously, for those countries purchasing European aircraft, spinoffs for their own industries are very important. They are important to Canada also. I would imagine that in the event of a competitive bidding process, your company would, as it has for previous hardware purchases, consider guaranteeing a specific amount of economic spinoffs for Canada based on the actual value of the purchase by the Canadian Government.
Assistant Director, International General Directorate, Dassault Aviation
Our company has a very long tradition of industrial cooperation with its customers. It is part of our corporate DNA. There are numerous examples of industrial cooperation with countries such as Greece, Belgium, Spain, the United Arab Emirates and Taiwan, which have purchased Mirage 2000, Mirage F1 and Mirage 5 fighters from Dassault.
On each occasion, we have shown our ability to adapt to the industrial cooperation needs of the client. Clients express their needs and it is our responsibility to provide a satisfactory response where possible.
Very often our response and proposals on industrial cooperation are governed by an extremely important principle in the area of technology transfer. In cases where the French Government decides to sell a fighter to a friendly nation, we do not restrict the transfer of technology. This is especially important today given the huge number of electronic components in fighter navigation and attack systems. It is also vital given the need for countries with the necessary capacity to be able to tailor weapons systems to their own requirements and to support the operational life and upgrading of the aircraft over a 30 to 40-year period. As a rule of thumb, it is essential, in cases like these, to provide client nations with software engineering workshops. These are designed to deliver the tools customers will need to maintain and customize the aircraft to their Air Forces' current and future requirements.
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
Your reply to my question is very informative.
Thank you. I have no further questions.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maxime Bernier
Thank you, Mister LeBlanc.
Mister Bachand, you have the floor.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Mister Chair.
Mister Robins, does the term ITAR-free that I frequently hear Europeans using refer to the unrestricted technology transfers you mentioned?
Assistant Director, International General Directorate, Dassault Aviation
ITAR is a term specific to U.S. legislation. It is not part of European law. The Rafale fighter is a 100-percent French product. As a result, the French Government is free to choose to which countries it will transfer technology.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
You said that the sole criterion was that the country be an ally. You would not therefore be in a position to transfer technology to China or Iran.
Assistant Director, International General Directorate, Dassault Aviation
The French Government has international obligations. I would point out that the European Union has imposed an embargo on the sale of defence systems to China. The French Government does not usually sell defence systems to rogue nations such as North Korea and the like.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Fine, I am not sure whether you know a former RAF Red Arrows aerobatic team pilot called Peter Collins.
Assistant Director, International General Directorate, Dassault Aviation
I know Mr. Collins very well.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
After flying the Rafale, he said the following: " [...] simply the best and most complete aircraft that I have ever flown. If I had to go into combat, on any mission, against anyone, I would, without question, choose the Rafale." Mr. Peter Collins also compares the Rafale to the F-22 and F-35 later in the article. Unfortunately, I was only able to read up to this point in the article. The rest is only available on line.
Could you tell me what the rest of the article says? What comparisons does Mr Collins draw with the F-22 and the F-35? Could you provide me a copy?
Assistant Director, International General Directorate, Dassault Aviation
Well, look, it would be no trouble at all for me to send you a copy of the whole Collins article, which was published in the British review Flight International. I do not know what Mr. Collins said about the F-35 and F-22. However, I can tell you that the Rafale went up against the F-22, which is the most powerful fighter in the World, during an exercise in the United Arab Emirates last year. It more than held its own. The Netherlands also tested the Rafale when they were shopping for their next generation fighter. The Dutch evaluated three aircraft: the F-35, the Rafale and the Eurofighter. Of a total possible score of 8.5, the F-35 finished with 6.97 points just 2 hundredths of a point ahead of the Rafale on 6.95. I would also point out that at that time the F-35 was not yet in production. As a result, the Dutch were only able to assess the F-35 on paper. However, a Dutch Air Force contingent came to Dassault to undertake a comprehensive in-flight evaluation of the Rafale. They flew several missions to assess for themselves how the Rafale handled.
We would have no hesitation in saying that the Rafale stacks up to other aircraft like the F-35.
Assistant Director, International General Directorate, Dassault Aviation
The Dutch did not test the F-22.
Assistant Director, International General Directorate, Dassault Aviation
Yes, the F-35 and the Eurofighter.
Assistant Director, International General Directorate, Dassault Aviation
Yes.
The Eurofighter scored 5.88 points. This was reported in the Dutch press and in The Telegraph daily newspaper.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
The Government has put a great deal of emphasis on stealth capability. Is the Rafale equipped with stealth characteristics?
Assistant Director, International General Directorate, Dassault Aviation
The Rafale is a stealth fighter. The Rafale was built for the French Air Force. They are our customer. Their approach is different from the one use in the F-35. The French Air Force has focused on a concept it calls "low observability". They define low observability as being a mix of stealth, passive weapon-system management and optimization of mission paths.
Let me explain. The Rafale's stealth features lie in its design, engineering, radar-absorbing coating and so-called hot-spot treatment. In addition, the Rafale is equipped with an optimized sensor system, which can be operated in passive mode during a mission to avoid detection. The Rafale's sophisticated, optimized low-level terrain following feature ensures a high mission success rate.