Evidence of meeting #35 for National Defence in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aircraft.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Hervé Garnier  Chairman, European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company Inc.
Antonio Rodriguez Barberan  Senior Vice-President, Commercial, Military Transport Aircraft, Airbus Military
Massimo Tarantola  Chief Operating Officer, Alenia North America Inc.
Benoît Arcand  Director, Canadian Government Programs, Bell Helicopter Textron Inc.
Bob Carrese  Executive Director, V-22 Business Development, Bell Helicopter Textron Inc.
Marcello Cianciaruso  Senior Vice-President, Canadian Programs, Alenia North America Canada Co.
Chris Schreiber  Vice-President, Business Development, Alenia North America Canada Co.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Maxime Bernier

Welcome to the 35th meeting of the Standing Committee on National Defence. We have already met 35 times! Today is Tuesday, November 23. On today's agenda, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we continue our study of search and rescue aircraft acquisition.

One of our scheduled witnesses from 3:30 p.m. to 4:30 p.m. is Mr. Hervé Garnier, Chairman, European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company. Thank you for joining us today.

We will also be hearing from Mr. Antonio Rodriguez Barberan, Vice-President of Airbus Military. Thank you.

You will each have 5 to 6 minutes to make your presentations, for a total of about 10 minutes. We will then go to questions from members until 4:30 p.m.

Mr. Garnier, if you would like to begin, the floor is yours.

3:30 p.m.

Hervé Garnier Chairman, European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company Inc.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, members of the committee.

Let me first introduce the two speakers representing EADS and Airbus Military at this meeting. My name is Hervé Garnier and my responsibilities are senior vice-president of EADS, including regular strategy and marketing for Europe and Canada at the corporate level. I am also chairman of EADS Canada, our Ottawa-based subsidiary. My colleague, Antonio Rodriguez Barberan, is senior vice-president, commercial, and member of the board of Airbus Military, one of EADS's main business units.

It's an honour for us to be here today and to address and highlight to such a distinguished audience the special relationship between EADS and Canada. We will present an overview about EADS and Airbus Military credentials, C-295 military aircraft highlights, C-295's compelling solution for Canada's fixed-wing SAR program, and finally the IRB strategy.

EADS is a global leader in aeronautical defence, space, and related services. The company is divided into four main divisions: Airbus, Eurocopter, Cassidian, and Astrium. EADS's latest programs include Tiger and LH90 helicopters, M400 military transport aircraft, Airbus A380, Eurofighter, and the European Galileo navigation satellite system, to name a few.

Over the years we have built a strong customer base, generating an annual turnover of 43 billion euros and an order backlog of more than 400 billion euros. Our global staff include over 120,000 employees in more than 50 countries worldwide.

EADS and its predecessor have been steadily committed to and present in Canada during the last two decades. This is through direct subsidiaries, EADS Canada in Ottawa, Eurocopter Canada in Ontario, Composites Atlantic in Nova Scotia, and PlantCML in Quebec. All together, they provide 700 direct jobs.

In addition to that, the programs of EADS divisions, including the procurement from more than 460 Canadian companies, generate more than $800 million Canadian a year. They also support more than 4,000 Canadian jobs. This allows the sustainable participation of Canadian companies coast to coast, small and large, in the global supply chain of EADS.

Let me now give the floor to Antonio Rodriguez Barberan.

Thank you.

3:35 p.m.

Antonio Rodriguez Barberan Senior Vice-President, Commercial, Military Transport Aircraft, Airbus Military

Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, Airbus Military is a business unit integrated within the Airbus division. Airbus Military today is the only company worldwide offering a full range of transport surveillance and SAR aircraft, including military derivatives of the successful Airbus commercial platform.

Airbus Military has sold worldwide more than 1,000 aircraft to 61 countries. Twelve of them are NATO countries, including Canada. The total fleet has accumulated over 4.2 million flight hours.

Recognizing the critical importance of developing a fixed-wing search and rescue and related mission aircraft, Airbus Military and its partners have developed a multi-role aircraft powered by Pratt & Whitney Canada engines, guided by Thales Canada avionics, and with training and simulation offered by CAE, from Canada. The C-295 has been developed to offer a premier fixed-wing search and rescue solution.

The family of CN-235 and C-295 has sold more than 350 units and has earned a worldwide reputation for reliability and supportability in operations with the armed forces of more than 25 countries, with very important repeat orders. The family has accumulated over 1.2 million flight hours.

The C-295 is a solid, proven aircraft with robust landing gear to operate on soft and unpaved terrain. It is the only ramp- and sensor-equipped SAR aircraft in its class currently operating around the world. It has the highest reliability and lowest maintenance and operating costs.

We conducted, as part of the letters of intent process, a review of Canadian SAR. Drawing from the experience of current and past Canadian SAR personnel, we recognize the unique challenges of terrain, environment, and geography that face your SAR crews.

As stated in our response to the letter of intent, Airbus Military is confident that our C-295 can excel in the SAR missions in Canada. Proven and flown daily in charting the most challenging environments worldwide, the C-295 allows operation in high winds and extreme cold. It is capable of supporting itself in austere airfields. It is operated today in mountainous terrain under adverse conditions, and operates over the world's oceans, from the tropics to the polar regions.

We take pride in the fact that the C-295 family is one of the very few medium twin-engine aircraft capable of operating in winds experienced in the North Atlantic. Today, the U.S. Coast Guard, Ireland, and Portugal operate maritime surveillance in that environment.

Furthermore, the aircraft family conducted cold weather certification for the CN-235 in Resolute Bay, and the C-295 was tested in Finland, where it operates today north of the Arctic Circle on a daily basis.

Brazil replaced their Buffalo family with our SAR aircraft overland as well as halfway across the South Atlantic. Similarly, Chile and Colombia operate our aircraft. These nations serve terrain that is as mountainous and desolate as anything in Canada. The C-295 has gained high praise in South America.

Mountain nations require search speed below 150 knots to ensure area coverage, to reduce the impact of mountain turbulence, and to safely manoeuvre in narrow mountain valleys. The C-295 displays excellent handling, rapid engine response, an outstanding lowest speed manoeuvrability, which allows the safe operation at very low levels close to terrain.

Our cabin, with the largest floor space in its class, is three inches longer than the C-130s, which provides tremendous capability in multi-role missions, allowing considerable room for equipment and personnel while still allowing a dedicated space for parachute rescue personnel.

Our tactical aircraft operate today in special operations where soldiers must parachute into hostile territory and unforgiving weather and terrain, safely carrying equipment loads that equal and in some cases exceed those of Canadian SAR personnel.

We can offer a standard certified version, which is currently in operation in Portugal, which allows the use of four battle windows offering full coverage during visual searches. This is extremely useful in searching confined mountain valleys where terrain masking complicates operations.

These capabilities are all proven and operating in SAR around the world today. But it is our state-of-the-art electronic search that differentiates us from the competition. For instance, the U.S. Coast Guard version uses forward-looking infrared electro-optic sensors integrated with a multi-mode search radar and direction finder to provide exceptional detection capability over water and snow.

The integration is provided by a data management system that interfaces with the communication and navigation systems, multiplies the efficiency of its stand-alone search sensor by a factor of 500, provides better search capability, and reduces response time.

Our maintenance program allows us to deploy the C-295 aircraft for up to 800 flight hours in remote areas, as proven in humanitarian missions in several African and central Asian countries. We understand that SAR is considered a non-fail mission and would therefore not propose developmental or unproven solutions, with associated risk, delay, and cost elements.

We note that the NRC report has provided recommendations that will improve the level of services in Canada regardless of the aircraft chosen, such as forward deployments and the review of basic options. We offer ourselves to collaborate in the process of optimization of SAR capabilities in Canada.

Finally, regarding the industrial regional benefits, let me start by saying that with the C-295 we have close to 20% direct Canadian content, and potentially more, depending on the configuration, bringing business to Canada through every single aircraft that is sold worldwide. Engines from Pratt & Whitney, simulation devices from CAE, and avionics from Thales Canada are a part today of the whole global supply chain of the C-295. So far we have sold 83 units, and we are consolidating our leadership position in the market.

Apart from this high direct Canadian content, should Airbus Military be successful in the fixed-wing SAR, we will be compliant, of course, with industrial and regional benefits principles. We have already identified some programs fulfilling the three main IRB objectives: high technology; long-term business for export for Canada; funds to the global supply chain of the EADS, including Airbus. We would like to confirm our commitment to perform all the interservice support in Canada. We have already discussed cooperation with potential partners coast to coast, large and small, in Canada.

In all the previous EADS programs in Canada, we have an outstanding record of fulfillment of IRB commitments. Maximizing the Canadian content is an Airbus Military priority.

In summary, we look forward to a competition that will allow us to provide a program of professional solutions with a high level of Canadian content and with a very low life-saving cost.

That concludes my remarks, Mr. Chairman.

Merci beaucoup.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Maxime Bernier

Thank you, gentlemen. I will now turn the floor over to Mr. Simms.

You have the floor for seven minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

And thank you to our guests who are here regarding the C-295, the EADS group.

I like what you said when you said SAR is a “non-failing mission”. Is that correct? Am I quoting you correctly, Mr. Rodriguez Barberan?

3:45 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Commercial, Military Transport Aircraft, Airbus Military

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

That's a very good point.

In your speech you were talking about your aircraft being able to survive harsh climate, the North Atlantic, for example. You said Finland, for example, Colombia, Chile, the mountainous regions, with mountain turbulence. Those are great points, given the situation we have in Canada.

What makes Canada unique, I think, in my own opinion, from these countries is that we have a vast area of land, so obviously you have to fly a greater distance. For example, I'll take one of the bases, maybe the one in my riding—why not? Gander. It's on the east coast. It's the farthest point east, or close to it, compared to the rest of the country. When you talk about Gander and you talk about the west coast at Comox, do you have an example of where your aircraft is able to cover that vast area of land and endure the conditions that you describe?

3:45 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Commercial, Military Transport Aircraft, Airbus Military

Antonio Rodriguez Barberan

Thank you very much for your question.

You have to know that today our aircraft has been selected and is operating, for instance, in Brazil, where the weather is not cold, but the country is vast, and it is performing search and rescue. In fact, I don't think I'm disclosing something I shouldn't, because it is in the press: we are negotiating with the Brazilian air force for a second batch of planes for their requirements.

So yes, the Canadian requirement is unique, but I think we can offer, from our experience in many countries, safe and non-risky solutions that cover all the requirements. In terms of distance, Brazil is a country with very similar requirements to the ones you have in Canada.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

The NRC in their report are looking at plotting all the search and rescue bases and analyzing this information. Do you see it as an issue that these bases are so far apart? You wouldn't be in favour of centralizing the bases to favour your aircraft, would you?

3:45 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Commercial, Military Transport Aircraft, Airbus Military

Antonio Rodriguez Barberan

I would never analyze this in favour of one or another. It is physics. When you want to decrease the rescue time, you have to analyze blocking responses. When you analyze rescue time, you basically have three areas to analyze—readiness time, transit time, and search time. Our approach is that during the search time we use high technology, so that we reduce the time in which you are searching. Readiness is very much a policy of the operation. Regarding transit, the only way is to drastically reduce the transit time.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

Do you think your aircraft has an advantage in being more capable and ready?

3:45 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Commercial, Military Transport Aircraft, Airbus Military

Antonio Rodriguez Barberan

Because of its high technology, including the Canadian engines, readiness time is extremely long.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

The parts for the CH-101 helicopter, the Cormorant, had been a significant issue and had major consequences. There was a major issue in operational availability. What are your current serviceability rates, and are your parts readily available in North America? You mentioned the 20% content issue.

3:45 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Commercial, Military Transport Aircraft, Airbus Military

Antonio Rodriguez Barberan

We have contracts with some of our customers in which we secure availability of over 90%. That's contracted, so we can do the same here with our ISS local partners, our interservice support. We are using equipment that is easy to maintain and repair. This implies a low life-cycle cost, maintenance cost. Our strong point is our availability.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

I understand the cost point. Are they available to North America?

3:50 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Commercial, Military Transport Aircraft, Airbus Military

Antonio Rodriguez Barberan

We have the CN-235. In the U.S. Coast Guard, they are starting operational deployment in the Miami Naval Base, and we have a very good record. Don't listen to me, listen to our customers. We have an unbelievable record of repeat orders.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

This aircraft is used all over the world. You have your picture with the U.S. Coast Guard. There seems to be quite a bit of room within the plane for the SAR techs to do their mission. One of the problems with search and rescue technicians is that they need not only the equipment but also sufficient space. Is that a competitive advantage? I guess that is one of the major reasons you've been successful with the U.S. Coast Guard.

3:50 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Commercial, Military Transport Aircraft, Airbus Military

Antonio Rodriguez Barberan

That's true in the U.S. Coast Guard and in other coast guards. The aircraft has a long cabin that allows for small details. It's not only the comfort of the crews that is important. For instance, we can have four bubble windows in our planes. Something as simple as that can make a difference when you are searching in mountainous terrain. These small details are extremely important for SAR technicians. In addition, we have a resting area in our cabin besides all this space for equipment.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

What does that do exactly?

3:50 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Commercial, Military Transport Aircraft, Airbus Military

Antonio Rodriguez Barberan

If your SAR technicians are working 10, 12, 15 hours on a search mission, it's nice to have a place to lie down and rest for 20 minutes.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Maxime Bernier

Thank you very much.

You have the floor, Mr. Bachand.

3:50 p.m.

Bloc

Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to welcome all of my friends, not only those seated here at this table, but the ones who are also in attendance. It's important not to play favourites.

I want to begin by saying that I am deeply disappointed that while the acquisition of these aircraft was announced five or six years ago, we are still, unfortunately, only at the starting point in the process, in my opinion, because we don't exactly know what is happening. The goal of today's meeting is to ask industry how it can help Canadians and Quebeckers who are in need of its services.

Major acquisitions in the aeronautics field have been made, but the aircraft that can really help Canadians and Quebeckers who are in distress is the search and rescue aircraft. The objective here is to begin and complete the acquisition process. To my way of thinking, things are not moving along quickly enough.

Are you familiar with the National Research Council of Canada's report? Can you give me your opinion of this report? Are you in a position to carry out all of the recommendations made by NRC?

3:50 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Commercial, Military Transport Aircraft, Airbus Military

Antonio Rodriguez Barberan

The recommendations are quite sound. We share most of them, and we read most of them in a positive manner.

3:50 p.m.

Bloc

Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Most of them. Okay.

The report recommends, among other things, that several of the requirements presently listed as “Tier 1 rated” be upgraded to “High Level Mandatory Capabilities” or “HLMC”. I would like to discuss some of these requirements with you. NRC recommends the “ [...] integration of SAR sensors such as electro-optical and infrared (EO/IR), search radar and night vision imaging systems (NVIS); [...]”

Is your company in a position to carry out this recommendation?

3:55 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Commercial, Military Transport Aircraft, Airbus Military

Antonio Rodriguez Barberan

First of all, I have to apologize. All the Spaniards of my generation speak some French, but I have to answer you back in English. I hope you don't mind. I don't feel comfortable answering you in French.

That's absolutely necessary. It is as if you want to look for something in your basement, you have no light, and you don't carry a torch. You may know the place, but it takes some time.

It is absolutely necessary in today's world, in carrying out search and rescue missions, to have search and rescue radar and electro-optical and infrared devices, as a minimum. We are in a position to not only propose, but to deliver. You need to have an AIS system as a minimum. We have this system already integrated and operational in our aircraft, and we strongly recommend you follow in that way.