National Defence Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2010

[Antonio Rodriguez Barberan]

Portugal, for instance. We have it in Brazil. This is the C-295. If you consider the family of products, they are in Chile, Ecuador, Colombia, Mexico, the United States, Ireland, Turkey, of course Spain, United Arab Emirates, Indonesia, Malaysia, and Korea. So we have a very, very broad.... More than 100 planes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

We have some time. I will give the floor to Monsieur Blais.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon.

I just want to point out that as a rule, I sit on the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. So then, you can easily understand why I'm very interested in the fishery and in search and rescue operations.

I was invited to work with Mr. Bachand on this issue on the national defence committee. I am pleased to be here and interested in hearing what you have to say.

First, I have a question of a technical nature. I will follow that up with a more general one.

You mention in your submissions that your aircraft can land on short runways. In concrete terms, what exactly does that mean? How many hundreds of feet of runway are we talking about? And under what types of conditions can they land? That is my technical question.

As for my general question, compared to existing models, how does your aircraft, the C-295, work better, regardless of the situation? It really doesn't matter what type of situation exists, since search and rescue aircraft always respond to extremely urgent situations where time is of the essence and where temperature and the elements can affect the success, or failure, of an operation.

What can you say to convince me that compared to existing models, your aircraft will ensure a better outcome? How will it make things better?

[Antonio Rodriguez Barberan]

First, typically you can talk about runways as being less than one kilometre long. You could land on much shorter than that, but typically an unpaved runway of one kilometre is something that we can use. If you want to have additional information, you know that it depends on the maximum takeoff weight of the aircraft. There are some charts that give you the distance of the runway, but typically as a general statement something in the ratio of one kilometre is good for the normal operation of the plane.

How can we ameliorate the present fixed-wing SAR? Dramatically, I would say. First of all, in areas like availability of the plane, with full respect to the Buffaloes, you are talking about engines and systems that were designed 40 or 50 years ago, compared with state-of-the-art engines and systems that would give you an unbelievable readiness, which is not available today.

The second thing is the mission system. You can imagine that the search using a mission system would be 500 times as effective as the typical visual search that you are using today. I repeat, 500 is the factor that the technicians are using. You are jumping ahead with the technology by 50 years, and of course in terms of life cycle, first because physically what you are doing, with full respect, is sometimes using planes not adapted for search and rescue, with maintenance and operation costs that are three times those for the C-295. So you have flexibility, 500 times greater effectiveness, and life-cycle costs.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I now have a somewhat more difficult question for you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Your time is up. You will have to wait until the next round.

Thank you very much, Mr. Blais.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Hawn.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, gentlemen.

I have a couple of quick questions. I don't have a whole bunch of time.

Talk about your cargo compartment a little bit. Can you handle NATO-standard pallets, the 88-inch by 88-inch by 108-inch pallets? Can you handle those?

[Antonio Rodriguez Barberan]

Yes.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Can you talk about any of your potential ISS--integrated service support--partners, or is that proprietary at this point?

[Antonio Rodriguez Barberan]

It's too early. We are discussing with several. It would be extremely impolite from my side if—

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I understand.

How confident are you—and I think I know the answer—for a similar fleet size, about being able to deliver the same kind of service that we have today with our combination of Buffaloes and Hercules?

[Antonio Rodriguez Barberan]

We are very confident. First of all, as we were mentioning, the first thing is the availabilty of the planes. You will be having availability in the range of 90%. I want to be humble in my answer, but today adapting a modern search and rescue system will multiply readiness, it will be 500 times as effective, and it will drastically decrease the life-cycle costs. There is the matter of the number of planes, for sure, but I'm sure you want to cover the whole of Canada, and we need to determine the number of planes with care.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

This is hypothetical, but how would you compare the C-295 to a brand-new Buffalo--never mind that they're 40 years old?

[Antonio Rodriguez Barberan]

In the hypothetical case that there will be a brand-new Buffalo, one of your colleagues was asking me if the pressurization of my plane is.... The Buffalo is an unpressurized plane, to start with, which means you cannot fly above 18,000 feet, if I'm not wrong. So you would have a huge problem to fly a long distance or over mountains. Airspeed is higher, and the jump in capabilities.... It is a new world. Even in the hypothetical case that at the end you can bring an old platform to new, with full respect to the Buffalo, which is a plane that aeronautical engineers love, and is close to our hearts, it's an old lady.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

If somebody were to purchase your aircraft off the shelf, what's your general timeframe from contract signing to delivery?

[Antonio Rodriguez Barberan]

Since we launched the CN-235--and the CN-235 at that time was series 10, and now it's series 300, and we are in the C-295 now--we have never discontinued the production line. So we have a production line in the range of 20 planes per year. Having a production line available, typically for a transport plane you are talking about one year. If you are talking about search and rescue, typically you are talking about 18 months. The factor to take into consideration is the lead time for the sensors. Sometimes producing radar takes longer than producing a plane. But typically, it's between a year and a year and a half.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

You mentioned it, but could you just expand a little bit on your bad weather SAR capability, as opposed to the strictly visual?

[Antonio Rodriguez Barberan]

First of all, our aircraft is certified under civilian rules. The CN-235 was certified in Canada for all weather types of operations. So at the end, at issue was really to have a stamp. You don't need to believe me; believe the authorities. For the rest, at the end, this is why a visual search.... You mentioned the Buffaloes. In a visual search in bad weather in the Buffalos you are simply lost. It's not the people on the ground who are lost; you are lost. So in bad weather you need to have search radar or infrared. It's the only way. This is the reason you need to have this type of new generation of equipment, to set it for bad weather types of applications.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you very much.

Thank you for joining us today, Mr. Garnier and Mr. Rodriguez.

I will now suspend the proceedings for three minutes, to allow the next witnesses time to take their place. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

The 35th meeting of the committee is now back in session. We are honoured to welcome Mr. Massimo Tarantola, Chief Operating Officer, Alenia North America, along with Mr. Marcelo Cianciaruso, Senior Vice-President, Alenia North America Canada Co. Lastly, from Bell Helicopter Textron, we have with us Mr. Bob Carrese, Executive Director, and Mr. Benoît Arcand, Director, Canadian Government Programs.

Each company will have 10 minutes for their presentation. We will hear first from the representatives of Alenia North America, and then from the Bell Helicopter Textron officials.

Mr. Tarantola, you have ten minutes.

[Massimo Tarantola, Chief Operating Officer, Alenia North America Inc.]

Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, I am Massimo Tarantola, chief operating officer of Alenia North America. I would like to thank you for giving us the opportunity to discuss the fixed-wing SAR program, and Alenia's C-27J Spartan solution.

I will first introduce my colleagues. Marcello Cianciaruso is the senior vice-president of Alenia North America Canada. Mr. Christopher Schreiber is vice-president of business development.

I will begin by giving you some information about our company. Alenia North America was established by Alenia Aeronautica to further expand the industrial and commercial presence of the group in Canada and the United States. Alenia Aeronautica is a European leader in aeronautics and a trusted partner to the world's leading aerospace companies.

Our shareholder Finmeccanica, one of the world's leaders in the defence industry, provides industrial and strategic control over more than 200 subsidiaries in aeronautics, helicopters, defence electronics, defence systems, space, transport, and energy. We employ more than 73,000 people around the world, with over 12,000 in North America, and had revenues of $25 billion U.S. in 2009.

Alenia understands the requirement to provide search and rescue services for the vast area that extends from the North Pole to the Canada-U.S. border, and from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific Ocean. This large area, with very diverse geography and severe climate, makes this a challenging mission to perform. As such, Canada's SAR requirements form a unique set of demands for fixed-wing aircraft. Alenia also understands, from the 2009 industry day and previous government statements, that the fixed-wing aircraft currently used in Canada for SAR are reaching the end of their useful lives, and we are ready to satisfy your requirements.

Alenia firmly believes that the C-27J Spartan is the platform that best meets Canada's FWSAR needs. It is a versatile, multi-mission, twin-engine turboprop aircraft that, thanks to a true military design, offers a unique blend of SAR capabilities.

The C-27J is in full production and is in use by the air forces in the United States, Greece, Lithuania, Italy, Bulgaria, Romania, and Morocco. There have been 81 aircraft ordered, and 35 have been delivered. The aircraft has both civil and military certifications.

Alenia has vast experience in the development and fielding of search and rescue platforms. It has missionized aircraft for special operations, including maritime patrol, coastal surveillance, and anti-submarine warfare using the platform of another one of our products, the ATR. We have customers in Libya, Nigeria, and Turkey, and it is used by the Italian coast guard, customs, and navy.

However, in the case of Canada we have elected to propose the C-27J over the ATR due to its unique military and operational requirements. The C-27J is an aircraft designed from the beginning for military operations. It is robust and reliable, with redundant safety features and low workload for the crew. The reliability and maintainability of the C-27J have been proven in tough and difficult operations in Afghanistan and various northern European countries. According to the Italian air force, the C-27J has demonstrated an aircraft availability and mission capability in Afghanistan that have met or exceeded its design targets.

Alenia's core capabilities and competencies, along with the C-27J's key features, enable Alenia Aeronautica to participate in any type of competition around the world. In fact, the C-27J has been selected over all other competitors as the superior product in the most demanding competitions with the most rigorous requirements. One example is the U.S. joint cargo aircraft program.

I will quickly summarize the main characteristics of the C-27J. It can achieve high speed during transition to search the search area, which is a valuable asset that enhances rescue possibilities. Its cruising speed is similar to that of the C-130J, higher than the old C-130 fleet currently used in the eastern SAR regions, and at least 50 knots higher than any other two-engine potential competitors. At the same time, the C-27J's low-speed handling allows patrolling at optimum search and rescue speeds with confidence and safety, particularly in the mountains of western Canada.

The cockpit has 16 windows, so outside viewing is excellent and the pilots can effectively contribute during the search, helping the operators who are scanning parallel to and directly behind the aircraft using two wide bubble windows mounted on the fuselage.

The cargo compartment is extremely wide--the best in its category--so that consoles, emergency kits, rescue crew, paratroops, rubber boats, and whatever is needed can be accommodated easily, leaving extra room to also move and rest during the long flight time required by the search and rescue mission.

The well-proven Rolls-Royce engine has enough power, even in the remote event that one engine fails, to safely recover the aircraft without endangering the crew or aircraft survivability. Handling with one engine in operation is extremely easy and safe, and has been proven in the past to Canadian air force pilots who flew the C-27J during our demo tour in Canada in 2004.

The aircraft is fully certified to operate under icy conditions, fulfilling the most updated and demanding requirements. In addition, military certification validated the C-27J operation on the ground and in the air, in severe weather conditions common to northern Canada. Furthermore, the fuel availability and the engine fuel consumption allow for long patrolling, making the C-27J a very efficient and cost-effective platform. The avionic suite of modern technology is comprehensive, redundant, and exceptionally accurate.

To further improve the aircraft's capability and effectiveness, especially in bad weather, the C-27J uses the same high-performance radar as the C-130J. The auxilliary power unit, APU, enables the C-27J to effectively operate autonomously in remote areas. Semi-prepared and unprepared short runways can be utilized for takeoff and landing, further supporting rescue efforts, and includes medical evacuation of up to 36 patients. As such, the C-27J would be an excellent choice for accommodating SAR missions, as well as performing operations in the north--for example, in Yellowknife, Iqaluit, and areas where external support is not available.

The C-27J's unique fuel system enables helicopters to be refueled on the ground, further supporting search and rescue operations and interoperability among Canadian search and rescue components.

The C-27J is a modern aircraft design, utilizing modern technologies and processes that significantly lower the cost of ownership. The aircraft is supported through an on-commission maintenance that requires no depot-level maintenance. Its excellent maintainability and reliability, built-in test capability, and ground-based data systems reduce aircraft downtime, spare parts, and support requirement needs, lowering rating costs and increasing aircraft availability. The commonality with the Canadian C-130J--engines, propellers, avionics--in spares, ground support equipment, training, and maintenance further contribute to reduction in support calls for your nation.

An important part of any procurement program is the industrial regional benefits, the IRB plan. Alenia is committed to implementing a robust IRB plan that is fully compliant with Canadian law and regulations. We understand the rules and we are ready and eagerly waiting to launch the program. The launch of the fixed-wing SAR program in Canada would provide work that would support thousands of high-quality jobs with direct industrial regional benefits, an outstanding stimulus for Canada's aerospace and defence sector. Alenia's IRB plan will equal or exceed 100% of the value of the project contract through direct or indirect benefits.

Our approach will include dollar-for-dollar high-value engineering and technical opportunities for Canadian companies in every region. Alenia has already satisfied major work packages with Canadian industry for the fixed-wing SAR program. These packages include air crew training, 20-plus years of in-service support, the missionization of the aircraft that includes the SAR mission kit, software integration, sensors, communication, mission systems. Additionally, direct benefits may come from further integration of Canadian companies into the C-27J or other Finmeccanica supply chain systems. These are significant areas of involvement in the program that are high-tech and long-term.

Alenia is also focused on establishing long-term collaboration and partnerships. In the arena of indirect benefits, these collaborations can involve Canadian research centres and universities and include technology transfer to Canadian industry for future programs.

We also have a proven track record of collaboration with Canadian companies. Alenia is a risk-sharing partner with Bombardier on the CSeries jet. Finmeccanica, through AgustaWestland, produced industrial regional benefits of approximately $1 billion Canadian, satisfying the SAR requirement two years before it was required.

Alenia and AgustaWestland have procured over $3 billion in engines from Pratt & Whitney of Canada. In the transportation arena, Ansaldo, we build trains. Another company within the Finmeccanica group is partnered with Bombardier for high-speed trains, with which we just won a competition in Italy.

Other examples include cooperation with MacDonald, Dettwiler and Associates for Radarsat-2 and with CAE for helicopter flight training, the M-346, and the C-27J Italian air force simulator.

In summary, Alenia believes that the C-27J Spartan is the best valid solution for the Canadian fixed-wing program. No other aircraft in its class can produce such a unique combination of speed, manoeuvrability, operations, and flexibility, and no other potential competitor can provide the wide range of excellent industrial benefits that it can.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you very much.

I will now give the floor to Bell Helicopter. Monsieur Arcand, you have the floor for ten minutes.

[Benoît Arcand, Director, Canadian Government Programs, Bell Helicopter Textron Inc.]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, honourable members of the committee, my name is Benoît Arcand and I am the director responsible for Canadian Government Programs at Bell Helicopter Textron Canada, the only Canadian helicopter manufacturer located in Mirabel, Quebec. On behalf of Bell Helicopter and its 175 suppliers across every region of Canada, I thank you for the opportunity to be here today.

This afternoon I'm accompanied by Mr. Pete Peterson, vice-president of Boeing Canada Operations Limited. In addition, I'm accompanied by Mr. Bob Carrese, executive director of business development for the Bell Boeing V-22 program.

Mr. Carrese will be proceeding with the actual presentation of what we believe is the best fixed-wing search and rescue solution for the Canadian government and for the citizens of this great country: the V-22 Osprey.

Without further ado, I will turn the floor over to Mr. Carrese.

[Bob Carrese, Executive Director, V-22 Business Development, Bell Helicopter Textron Inc.]

Thank you.

Mr. Chairman and honourable members, it's a pleasure to be here today and present to you what we believe to be a compelling solution to the Canadian government's fixed-wing search and rescue program, the V-22 Osprey.

The V-22 successfully blends, in one platform, the high-speed, long-range, long-endurance search and assist capability of fixed-wing transports with the manoeuvrability and vertical flight rescue capabilities of SAR helicopters. Integrating an appropriate number of these exceptional and proven aircraft into the Canadian Forces rescue community maximizes the level of SAR service by dramatically reducing time to rescue while reducing total mission costs.

The V-22 is a fixed-wing aircraft with prop rotors at each wing tip that function as both propellers and rotors. The prop rotors, along with our engines and gear boxes, are mounted in nacelles that rotate from a vertical position in the hovering mode to a horizontal position in the airplane mode. We can also operate routinely at intermediate and nacelle angles to optimize the aircraft's performance. There's a graphic of the three different configurations there in your package.

An interconnect driveshaft between the nacelles allows one engine inoperative performance. Because the blades are counter-rotating, you do not have an adverse yaw situation with one engine. Other key features include a fully marinized structure and engines for continuous corrosion resistant operations in a maritime environment; extensive use of composites to increase resistance to corrosion fatigue; state-of-the-art crash-worthiness features in the areas of structural design, load attenuation, passenger safety, payload retention, fire suppression, and emergency escape; triple redundant digital fly-by-wire flight controls and hydraulic systems; Rolls-Royce AE 1107C engines, which share the same engine core as found on the CC-130J; modern avionics with glass cockpit displays; a number of radar options to include weather, maritime search, or terrain-following and terrain avoidance; an ice protection system, which includes both anti-ice and de-ice capabilities certified into known moderate icing—and most of our testing of that system was actually performed in Shearwater; and an open passenger and cargo cabin with roller rails, winch, hoist, and a rear loading ramp to provide the SAR techs with the clearance required to safely perform all necessary ground and airborne tasks.

The V-22 program is in full production. We're delivering over 400 aircraft to the U.S. military and concurrently executing a five-year comprehensive fleet support sustainment package. The fleet has logged over 95,000 flight hours, with approximately 80% of those in the last five years. The aircraft has been globally deployed performing humanitarian relief, governance, and combat missions in Honduras, Haiti, Pakistan, North Africa, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

Why are we different? While many aircraft are capable of long-range, high-speed, fixed-wing search and assist, only the V-22 has the ability to hover or land vertically to complete the rescue in extremely austere environments and then transfer the rescuee directly to a care facility.

The V-22's ability to operate independent of runways also allows forward basing with minimal infrastructure.

Additional inherent capabilities that facilitate SAR missions include a ground-based mission planning system that overlays map data with weather, navigation, and mission scenario information to determine mission feasibility and safety. It also generates primary and alternate flight plans and is used for post-flight debriefing functions. It includes a flight director that provides uncoupled guidance commands as well as coupled or autopilot engagements for several flight path, inertial navigation, and electronic navigation modes, including discrete search patterns.

The V-22 cabin concept addresses the most critical rescue and system operator needs, with ample communications, sensor integration, equipment stowage, litter capacity, seating, medical services equipment to include 100% oxygen, and external cargo capability. If required, SAR techs may parachute to a rescue site or packages may be dropped using the proven joint precision air drop system.

The V-22 can also be aerial-refueled—there's a picture of this at the bottom of page four—providing virtually unlimited range or endurance. The Osprey is compatible with existing Canadian refueling fleet aircraft.

In addition to its unique performance attributes, the V-22 provides a cost-efficient solution in a time of financial constraints. Total mission costs include the allocated costs of many complementary elements in addition to direct operating costs of the platform itself. Tiltrotor technology greatly reduces the need for many of the support structures and systems, providing a substantially lower mission cost when compared with legacy partnerships of today.

The V-22 also brings a number of support-type improvements to the solution, particularly in the area of training. Training approach emphasizes the use of high-quality simulators, which reduce by approximately 70% the need for live aircraft training flights. Missions can be flown typically in much less total time utilizing fewer assets, resulting in lower requirements for fuel, oil, and the like and subsequently lowering total emissions and noise pollution.

In conclusion, we believe that the Osprey's unique capabilities offer the opportunity to greatly enhance the mission effectiveness of the Canadian search and rescue community. By rapidly providing immediate assistance and rescue with one platform, the V-22 complements a world-class community of professionals that will save more lives and utilize fewer assets.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and honourable members.